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Old Aug 06, 2013, 03:55 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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This is thermal flying!

Finals flight from Holic.

F5J Holíč 2013 (3 min 10 sec)


Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 05:20 PM
always looking for clouds
socommk23's Avatar
Joined Aug 2010
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what the hell? they use a motor? or did they hook imediatly into a thermal? im so confussed!
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 05:30 PM
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Joined Nov 2005
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Two thoughts:

1-What a set!

2-Did I say, "What a set!"?

And even after contact they keep on working it, that is what a thermal comp is all about.

Marc
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 05:35 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socommk23 View Post
what the hell? they use a motor? or did they hook imediatly into a thermal? im so confussed!
Yes, they use a motor. The rules penalize you 1/2 second of flight time for each meter of launch altitude up to 200 meters and 3 points for each meter over 200 meters.

The flight task in the finals is 15 minutes and the object is to get the most flight time AFTER the launch altitude assessment.

In this video guys are launching at low power and searching for thermals while under power at low elevation. Presumably, they can power up a bit and get a little more launch altitude if they don't find what they are working for. Most of these planes have small, light power systems.

Lots of strategy. And lots of guts.

Its about the thermals.

Happy Landings,

Don

BTW: The flights are timed from the start signal -- you can run your motor or not for up to 30 seconds. An early motor shut-off does not benefit the pilot -- only a low launch.
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 07:50 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
3,076 Posts
Wow. I need a new plane.
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 08:21 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaizon View Post
Wow. I need a new plane.
Actually, the planes they are flying are pretty much like your Supra. I spend a lot of my time working low level stuff, but I am not in the same universe with some of these guys.

I did pick up a new plane -- not so much to compete with, but to hone my low level skills. I got a Scorpion. 2.3 meters and 24 ounces, full house. It is a lot like the great stretched DLG that Dave Register flies from time to time. I have concluded that in F5J and/or when lower altitude flying becomes more a part of ALES, that the DLG guys are going to shine. I can't toss a glider, so this little Scorpion will have to do as a DLG proxy. I've had it out once and it is pretty spectacular at low altitudes.

Got to work on that low altitude attitude

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 09:26 PM
launch low, fly high
New Zealand, Hawke's Bay, Havelock North
Joined Dec 2004
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Great video Don!

It appears that in light/fluffy thermal conditions, F5J may become a contact sport...

I do worry about this a little bit. With 1.5m wingspan DLG aircraft, one can share thermals with several aircraft at low altitude without too much worry. In F5J, the large wingspan and very low initial altitude results in a far higher risk of multiple aircraft attempting to occupy the same airspace. In the first few minutes, there is a bit more risk of spectator entertainment in F5J when the conditions are right!
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 09:33 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe W View Post
Great video Don!

It appears that in light/fluffy thermal conditions, F5J may become a contact sport...

I do worry about this a little bit. With 1.5m wingspan DLG aircraft, one can share thermals with several aircraft at low altitude without too much worry. In F5J, the large wingspan and very low initial altitude results in a far higher risk of multiple aircraft attempting to occupy the same airspace. In the first few minutes, there is a bit more risk of spectator entertainment in F5J when the conditions are right!
The video was posted on Facebook by Palo Lishak. (Want to keep the attributions right)

As far as the mid airs, I guess you have to take up the golfer's mantra when hitting through a tree -- it's mostly air. Really.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 10:04 PM
The Great Filter
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Joined Jan 2007
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Wow, that looks like fun! Now that is how you make the flying part more challenging.

A 2m F5J class might be really nice. A bit bigger than a DLG to carry a small power system, a lot smaller than the 4m gliders to make it easier to thermal together down low. That size might keep the costs down a bit too, compared to a 4m glider.

Thanks for the link to the video Don!

Kevin
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Old Aug 06, 2013, 10:24 PM
LSF303 / AMA Life Member
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USA, IL, Wheeling
Joined Jan 2003
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Friends don't let friends fly 2M ...
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 01:29 AM
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Tuomo's Avatar
Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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This is the difference of F5J compared to ALES
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 02:08 AM
In F3J size does matter!
roydor's Avatar
Israel
Joined Nov 2006
828 Posts
You should post this in the "Increasing the emphasis on flying not landing" thread
This is exactly why I've been saying for a while now, ALES is a fine event for clubs but the future of thermal competitive soaring is F5J!
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 05:57 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
10,199 Posts
looks like a bunch of wanna be f3k guys!

just kidding guys:-0
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 02:55 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
dharban's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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In conditions like this with a large flight group, SOMEONE is going to max. Actually, everyone MIGHT max. The question becomes "who will waste the least lift?"

The lowest launching plane launched to 10.7 meters.

Go big or go home.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Aug 07, 2013, 03:59 PM
launch low, fly high
New Zealand, Hawke's Bay, Havelock North
Joined Dec 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharban View Post
The lowest launching plane launched to 10.7 meters.


Don
That is a moderate hand launch with a 4m glider... way cool!

It would be interesting to see the actual altitude plot for the lowest launch. I would be curious to see what the altitude at cutoff was in comparison to the F5J launch altitude, as the launch altitude is the highest reading between cutoff and ten seconds after cutoff.

These low altitude launches are pushing the resolution of the altitude sensor. I'd want to do some testing of various sensors, as some sensor data appear to be more smoothed than others. The goal is to have a sensor with the least amount of spikes in the data.
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