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Old Nov 27, 2010, 01:10 PM
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Staffs, UK
Joined Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
Slipstick, Is there some purpose in your posting here, other then to be argumentative?? Go away!
If you ever start your own forum you may be able to decide who gets to post and who doesn't. Until then I'll post where I like. And if you're going to keep posting bizarre stuff like "stop heading into the alfalfa" and refusing to explain it I'll keep questioning.

I was enjoying the subject of model building but I still have no idea what you've suddenly started ranting on about. There seems to be something you don't want us to talk about but you didn't quote anything to give me a hint and I can't work out what it is. If "don't head into the alfalfa" in a modelling context means something in American English then it doesn't translate well across the Atlantic.

BTW young ladies on the cover of mags never really bother me but for some reason they're very rare over here in the UK. We usually just have pictures of models and quite a few of the mags regularly contain free plans for us to build, though these days they're quite often made of foam. I guess that's one reason why I've been less worried about the imminent death of model building than you are or perhaps were .

Steve
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 01:29 PM
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saucerguy's Avatar
United States, WA, Yacolt
Joined Dec 2005
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I think it's very important to point out to the new builder that they do NOT need to go in debt on their creations, that the use of materials typically slated for the recycle or trash bin, or super cheap off the shelf materials are all that's needed to get started. I have another thread, this guy is questioning my use of eps, and I'm going, it's $4.00 in materials and I have a new plane, it's $50-60 in EPP and carbon fiber going your route. If I'm spending 60.00 on materials, might as well just get an ARF, outside of nostalga for building.

I'm alarmed about the hobby shops still refusing to stock and support inexpensive RC plane kits, I cannot bring myself to purchasing a 100.00 kit I still have to convert to RC, which takes more work then simply carving out spots for the gear, you have to re-engineer the whole plane for that, then in the end, pay more for it all then something off the shelf using the same if not better materials, and if you aren't a pro builder, it won't look like much in the end. In the old days, it was intimidating, spending 100 plus hours on something hoping one would be able to fly it, only to have it turn into a pile of sticks, or just as bad, not being able to fly it without training wheels and someone else instructing you for hours on in just to handle the basics. Most people do not have that kind of time to invest, this is why it was a hobby for only the elite. The ARF/RTF market has vastly expanding the number of hobbiests to this one, now that they have been bitten with the rc plane bug, it's up to us as builders to show them a new world where they are not at the mercy of replacement parts land, then from there, no longer at the mercy of replacement plane land.

Some of the funnest planes I've ever owned were a quick evening bash using materials that were either free, or dirt cheap. It also takes the edge off of things since you don't worry about crashing it as much, knowing full well it's a super cheap fast repair, or just toss and rebuild something else on the fly.
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 01:30 PM
It only takes one good idea
dag214's Avatar
Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,806 Posts
Hey all,

Model designing, creating, engineering, building and flying is not really that dead, and maybe the way to bring it back a bit is doing so by example. I see many building BNF, ARF's, Kits, and scratch build (what % it is we may not know as everyone is not AMA anymore, or on these threads). But many that hang out with me see what scratch building can produce. So I am sure that there are more (a high%) that fly ARF's, but that does not mean that building will die. There will always be someone that wants to fly something that is not an ARF. I love ARF's when it comes to wanting something standard and does not take a year to build, but a 200" T-28 is another story. None of my planes are under 100", and none of my mono planes have been under 165". Those you can't find in a ARF.

A few of my beast over the last 8 years are attached, some are in design, some are being built, and some are flying.

Rock On!

DAG
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstick View Post
If you ever start your own forum you may be able to decide who gets to post and who doesn't. Until then I'll post where I like. And if you're going to keep posting bizarre stuff like "stop heading into the alfalfa" and refusing to explain it I'll keep questioning.

I was enjoying the subject of model building but I still have no idea what you've suddenly started ranting on about. There seems to be something you don't want us to talk about but you didn't quote anything to give me a hint and I can't work out what it is. If "don't head into the alfalfa" in a modelling context means something in American English then it doesn't translate well across the Atlantic.

BTW young ladies on the cover of mags never really bother me but for some reason they're very rare over here in the UK. We usually just have pictures of models and quite a few of the mags regularly contain free plans for us to build, though these days they're quite often made of foam. I guess that's one reason why I've been less worried about the imminent death of model building than you are or perhaps were .

Steve
What I mean by "Heading into the alfalfa" is picking fights over ARFs or Buidling! You quoted me saying the following: "I have to ask: If you feel so strongly that these women are being exploited, why is it O.K. for you to read these magazines at your work"?

How am I supposed to know what your talking about!?!

"Go away", for me meant your more trouble then your worth! Post where you like! However, I don't see much constructive with what you say!
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 02:22 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
22,367 Posts
You won't see the covers in my office, to begin with. The magazine has decent content (choose which definition of decent I meant).

My reasons to not subscribe are:

1) I won't give my money to people with a low level of respect for women.

2) I won't have their trashy covers coming into my house my my children will see women treated as sex objects.

3) I don't need to see women or girls scantily clad (Jan 09 issue) or seductively posing (I forget the date, young teen girl in seductive black dress).

Note that neither one of them had anything to do with the material between the covers, which does not have the same level of blatant "sex sells."

Andy
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 03:03 PM
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United States, WA, Yacolt
Joined Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
You won't see the covers in my office, to begin with. The magazine has decent content (choose which definition of decent I meant).

My reasons to not subscribe are:

1) I won't give my money to people with Kiona's low level of respect for women.

2) I won't have their trashy covers coming into my house my my children will see women treated as sex objects.

3) I don't need to see women or girls scantily clad (Jan 09 issue) or seductively posing (I forget the date, young teen girl in seductive black dress).

Note that neither one of them had anything to do with the material between the covers, which does not have the same level of blatant "sex sells."

Andy
I agree with you upon it. We should take note, the models typically used are not all that attractive, not enough to merit being some "model", they are typically someone's girlfriend, or some washed up wanna be model. Some of these gals are out right ugly, and the fact remains, they have nothing to do with rc planes.

The girl tactics are used in the car mag's because shallow women are only into guys that have expensive cars, and other things for that matter. It doesn't translate at all to RC, but to be blunt, if they show them, at least have some taste and class and please, get gals that are actual model material, lol.
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 04:52 PM
treefinder
springer's Avatar
SE MI
Joined Oct 2004
9,444 Posts
In support of Saucerguy's post #917: Interesting what one can learn just by looking at the number of people on the various forums on RCG.
Right now (last 15 minutes I think they say)
Electric planes forum group: 20 persons and up in each thread with anyone online
Fuel planes: highest was 10 total of all the threads
Foamie Kits: 49 (22 members/27 guests)
Scratchbuilt foamies: 109 (51 members 58 guests)

Seems like model building is going just fine in the "new" materials threads, and as SG mentioned much of that is being done with materials cheap, easily available and even other people's scrap (my first plane was made from a piece of fanfold scrounged from a friend's dumpster at his newly built house!)
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 05:14 PM
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Joined Jul 2006
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Anyone thinking that building is dead has not visited the "Scale Electric" forum. We can't bring something "back" that never left in the first place.
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 05:59 PM
It only takes one good idea
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Fishers, Indiana
Joined Oct 2004
5,806 Posts
Hey all,
I know I have not added much to this since the very beginning, but when I look at all the people I have met that are scratch building, and building from plans I think it is hard to truly measure how much of anything is happening. I know a ton of great builders that won't visit a forum like this thinking it is not what they are looking for in the hobby. Sure kits sales are down (are they really??), and ARF's sales must be up. But I know that 50 years from now there will be guys like me, and my pals that still have to build there own, and some of the stuff I have built out of cardboard, foam, tape, and CF are some of the coolest things I have flown. I have a PZ F4U that is a blast to fly in front of the house and many said "DAG a foam park flier?" I said yep, and I have my scratch builds for my design fix.

I feel we all have our own thing in this hobby, and as long as you do what you love, it will keep on going

Rock On!
DAG
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 08:48 PM
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Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
You won't see the covers in my office, to begin with. The magazine has decent content (choose which definition of decent I meant).

My reasons to not subscribe are:

1) I won't give my money to people with a low level of respect for women.

2) I won't have their trashy covers coming into my house my my children will see women treated as sex objects.

3) I don't need to see women or girls scantily clad (Jan 09 issue) or seductively posing (I forget the date, young teen girl in seductive black dress).

Note that neither one of them had anything to do with the material between the covers, which does not have the same level of blatant "sex sells."

Andy
Statistics: (Of course statistics can be bent to any desired effect, right?) Of the 33 issues of 3D flyer and R/C Sport Flyer magazines I own, starting in 2005 and only one complete year, 27 of the covers were of Model Airplanes, Engines and other equipment, some of these issues had R/C pilots on them. 5 had women on them, all nicely (not scantly) dressed. I don't have the January of 09 issue, so I can't comment. I'm uncertain what a seductive pose is and especially while holding a model airplane or helicopter!

Women should not be objectified! I feel the women shown on R/C Sport Flyer aren't!

Simply put, Andy, I don't agree with you and that is fine by me.

I think the following comments are truly horrible and do objectify women!

"We should take note, the models typically used are not all that attractive, not enough to merit being some "model", they are typically someone's girlfriend, or some washed up wanna be model. Some of these gals are out right ugly, and the fact remains, they have nothing to do with rc planes".
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 09:02 PM
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Dag, good to see you back here! The B 36 is coming along wonderfully! Like to see more photos!
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 09:21 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
22,367 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode One View Post
I don't have the January of 09 issue, so I can't comment. I'm uncertain what a seductive pose is and especially while holding a model airplane or helicopter!
Is laying down with a skin-tight black dress seductive? As I recall it had a "centerfold-ish" shot inside as well. I tried googling to find the cover but was unable. Several comments I found point toward it being a 2004 QFI.

Here's the Jan 09 cover for you - I consider this inappropriate attire: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=951448 - and it looks like there were plenty of others who felt the same.

Just so people understand, I'm not picking on any one magazine or publisher, and the views I express are strictly my own. I have also discontinued subscriptions to other magazines such as Pop Mechanics which had interior contents just as bad. RCSF has good content in almost every issue.

Whether or not you find the covers (or contents) of this or any other model airplane magazine offensive, the issue still remains - there are a good number of us "old fashioned" parents who won't get past the cover to allow our kids to read the interior. And THAT is why that sort of cover is NOT going to help increase the size of the model airplane community.

We need to show our hobby as a fun, clean, family-oriented activity. Besides, as we have said several times, the building aspect of our hobby is not going away. It's changing.

Andy
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 10:27 PM
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Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
22,367 Posts
Model building dying?!??! Check out the comments in this thread!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post16668088

Andy
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyKunz View Post
Model building dying?!??! Check out the comments in this thread!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0#post16668088

Andy
Exactly! It never died. While we were busy looking elsewhere, it actually steadily got more popular than ever before, with dozens and dozens and dozens of new companies starting up to satisfy the craving for builders.

This is what I find funny about this thread. People really need to look around and see just how immensely popular building really is...

Chuck
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 03:33 AM
Build to Fly? FLY to BUILD!
Legot's Avatar
United States, AZ, Gilbert
Joined Nov 2009
1,104 Posts
It would seem so...



So spread the word!!! Spread the word!!!!!!!
Whenever I build a profile my dad seems to think that I'm disobeying the laws of physics!!! (he needs to do his research)

So the builders (us) just need to tell the other guys (them) to build stuffs until it flys

I like that and the cool thing is, it could work~
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