HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Mar 07, 2013, 07:42 PM
Registered User
Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
7,796 Posts
Discussion
18" Eastbourne Monoplane

Originally I started this thread in the Micro forum, but it seems to be dying the death over there. Probably not enough foam and barn door controls involved. So, if nobody objects I'd like to start again here, where I feel most at home.

Basically it will be very much like the Sperry Monoplane. Power will be a 7 mm motor unit, control will be a Vapor brick operating rudder, elevator and throttle and finish will be printed tissue.

Don't panic, that doesn't mean more reams of tissue experiments. From how it's going so far it appears I may have that aspect sorted out - printed Esaki applied with a glue stick, water shrunk and a couple of coats of heavilly thinned cellulose dope. It appears that the secret is to water shrink the tissue as many times as are required to get it how you want it to look and only dope it when it looks as if it already has been doped.
Although the wife thinks it's totally yucky, I find that just licking the tiny areas of wrinkles helps remove them almost completely. Lick, allow to dry and shrink a bit more, lick again if required. Heathen it may sound, but it does seem to work quite well.
See what you think from the photo.

Pete
PETERRAKE is offline Find More Posts by PETERRAKE
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Mar 07, 2013, 07:55 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
USA, FL, Tampa
Joined Jul 2002
4,921 Posts
Welcome home Pete. I know what you mean about that forum.
You seem to have this printed tissue thing all figured out. Your fuselage looks great!
I see the motor is exposed a bit, but it won't be too noticeable once the dummy engine is in place.
Think you were correct on my problems with the printed tissue, too much ink.
Glenn
glewis is offline Find More Posts by glewis
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 07, 2013, 07:59 PM
I eat glue
Canada, NS, Yarmouth
Joined Jul 2006
3,537 Posts
I totally agree with the lick, wait, lick again technique. Use it all the time on freeflight models.
baldguy is offline Find More Posts by baldguy
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 07, 2013, 08:03 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
USA, FL, Tampa
Joined Jul 2002
4,921 Posts
I've licked a few birds like that too....
glewis is offline Find More Posts by glewis
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 07, 2013, 08:14 PM
Senile Member
Lnagel's Avatar
Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
6,292 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glewis View Post
You seem to have this printed tissue thing all figured out. Your fuselage looks great!
I think it would be more appropriate to say that he's got the printed tissue thing licked.

Larry
Lnagel is offline Find More Posts by Lnagel
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 07, 2013, 08:27 PM
AKA Jon Rider
Shnokey's Avatar
United States, MA, Holliston
Joined May 2004
1,123 Posts
Nice to see - Anything you do is welcome here - it's scale - Isn't it?
Shnokey is offline Find More Posts by Shnokey
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 07, 2013, 09:01 PM
Registered User
JIMA's Avatar
New Boston, Texas, United States
Joined Jan 2003
2,743 Posts
Good to see you building again Pete. All designing and no building makes for a dull Pete. The covering looks amazing.

Jim
JIMA is offline Find More Posts by JIMA
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 09:37 AM
Registered User
Blacksburg, VA 24060 USA
Joined Feb 2000
3,238 Posts
Too Small, Too Heavy

Watching the Sperry Jenny thread and now this one, I'd like to insert my inexpert tuppence.

It's my sense that an 18" span airplane weighing about 35 grams all up is too small and has too high a wing (or cubic) loading for decent slow flight indoors in a basketball court. The Vapor is an exception, because it's very light.

But I favor a larger, though heavier, airplane, and I've built a few to prove (to myself) the point.

Alas, both birds use the dreaded "f" material. Both are based on the Parkzone Champ fuselage, with built-in brick and motor (an excellent bargain at $38 U.S.). The low-winger spans 24", the biplane is 22". Each weighs about 45 grams, RTF. Thanks to the very generous wing area, they fly slower than any of the other birds in my club's group, except the Vapor and the Ember 2. Yet there is plenty of throttle left for "high speed."

Given that my vision ain't what it used to be, and neither are my reflexes, my "big" birds fly as sedately as I want, and are readily visible with regard to orientation when flown to the far end of the basketball court.

So. My bottom line is, I'd like to see you scale experts design something larger for the Ultra Micro gear, for indoor work.

Jim R.
JRuggiero is offline Find More Posts by JRuggiero
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:06 AM
Registered User
Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
7,796 Posts
Tsk, tsk, Glenn. That sounds like something from a Carry On film. Very double entendre.

Anyway, I'm glad you guys approve of me posting this here - and my tissue licking habit.
As you can see, the model is fairly well advanced, so I'll add some more photos later to bring things fully up to date.

I know the colour scheme isn't really very scale but, while I may not be continuing with tissue experiments, but am experimenting with tissue printing. I tried getting a swirled effect on the aluminium areas, but that came out looking more like a chequered finish - the swirls barely showed but the areas between them did. Similarly, the original wood grain area came out darker than intended, so that covering was stripped off and the stuff you saw in the photo applied.

The brick is now installed and I found (?) a good way of making feeding the pushrods into place easier. I kept them close to the required length on the Sperry and getting them into the model, as opposed to THROUGH the covering, was a real pain. This time I made them both longer than required, with one much longer than required. That meant I could feed the very long one into place before the shorter one got anywhere near a place it might damage the covering. Then it was just a case of wriggling the second one through its' exit plate, moving the whole assembly far enough back to get the brick into the fuselage and then moving it all forward again onto the Uhu Por on the u/c plate cum brick mount. Much, much easier and totally painless for the covering tissue.

Pete
PETERRAKE is offline Find More Posts by PETERRAKE
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:34 AM
Registered User
Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
7,796 Posts
Jim,
I don't have a basketball court in which to fly them, so I couldn't say whether they'd be too fast or not. I'm no expert, but 2.8 oz./sq.ft (Sperry) doesn't sound too heavy to me and they aren't intended to fly like a Vapor.
I do know that a 29 gram foamie was too fast for our village hall venue, which is why I fly the Sperry outdoors. However, that hall is really only big enough for Vapors and the little Plantraco type models (sub 10 grams). Even that style of model - 10" span Nieuport 11 weighing just under 10 grams has a wing loading of just over 2 oz./sq. ft. and flies in the village hall. It would be lost in a basketball court.

Just did some checking and the village hall is about 1/3 the size of a basketball court - 30 feet by 50 feet or thereabouts.

Pete
PETERRAKE is offline Find More Posts by PETERRAKE
Last edited by PETERRAKE; Mar 08, 2013 at 10:49 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 12:24 PM
Or current resident
glewis's Avatar
USA, FL, Tampa
Joined Jul 2002
4,921 Posts
[QUOTE=PETERRAKE;24360320]Tsk, tsk, Glenn. That sounds like something from a Carry On film. Very double entendre.

More like something from Benny Hill
glewis is offline Find More Posts by glewis
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 04:05 PM
Registered User
Blacksburg, VA 24060 USA
Joined Feb 2000
3,238 Posts
Peter,

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I suppose the choice of size comes down to "horses for courses." This old horse finds a bigger airplane a bit easier to handle indoors. I like them slow and easy. I suppose further that what constitutes flying instead of flitting is in the eyes of the beholder. I find the Flyzone airplanes (Fokker Triplane, Albatross DVa, etc.) very attractive, but to me they are flitters.

Now I think of it, the attached Gymallo exemplifies what I like to think is a very comfortable indoor flyer. It's about 30" sail spread and 5.5 ounces weight with 2S. It will fly about as slow as an Ember 2, but not as slow as a Vapor. It's my "go-to" airplane for indoors when I want to fly something slower than my Champ variations.

I apologize for hijacking this thread, but I hope I've spread a little thought around for future indoor scale considerations.

Jim R.
JRuggiero is offline Find More Posts by JRuggiero
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 04:42 PM
Registered User
Norfolk, England
Joined Sep 2001
7,796 Posts
Jim,
Not hijacking at all. As you say, it's horses for courses, and I'm designing these more to suit what I want to build myself. I'll only fly them outdoors and there they appear to fly relatively slowly. I don't doubt they'd appear much faster with walls leaping out at them.

This was my indoor slow flyer. 18" span, under 8 grams flying weight and flew at walking pace using IR control for rudder and throttle only. Lots of 1/16 sq. balsa, some mylar, a little 3/32 balsa and not much of anything else. Came to an untimely end when the wife accidentally knocked it off the stand and made the mistake of trying to catch it.
It flew in the village hall in a sort of guided free-flight mode. Set the rudder trim for 20 ft. circuits and enjoy watching it drift around sedately. If it got too close to an obstruction, just add a straight leg to the away from obstacle part of the circuit and then commence circling again.

The Nieuport was faster, but still flew well within the confines of the hall.

Pete
PETERRAKE is offline Find More Posts by PETERRAKE
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 05:25 PM
AKA Jon Rider
Shnokey's Avatar
United States, MA, Holliston
Joined May 2004
1,123 Posts
The tissue printing is coming along well, I like the clean and crisp lines - makes for wonderful detail without the excess weight -
Shnokey is offline Find More Posts by Shnokey
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion 18" Sperry Monoplane PETERRAKE Scale Kit/Scratch Built 141 Oct 02, 2014 11:58 AM
Discussion 18" Eastbourne Monoplane PETERRAKE Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 9 Mar 02, 2013 08:44 AM
Discussion 18" Sperry Monoplane in scale forum PETERRAKE Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 10 Feb 11, 2013 10:17 AM
Discussion Details on Eastbourne Monoplane E-Challenged Scale Kit/Scratch Built 66 May 07, 2010 01:38 PM
Aerocraft eastbourne monoplane Alan Trefrey Parkflyers 4 Mar 19, 2002 01:49 PM