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Old Sep 10, 2012, 01:57 PM
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United States, WA, Steilacoom
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Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
Hi Buddy,

I have the same in my Apache and ordered yesterday the second for my BlackHawk.


Jan,
I used one on my MD500 Tow Defender before I went with the 5 blade head, and I must say they look fantastic, built to last, flew awesome with my AR7200BX flybarless, only reason I took it off was to go with the more scale look on the MD500.. other than that that copterx flapping hinge head is fantastic...
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 03:42 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
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If I could suggest that you look at the Century 4 blade head, it may save you some aggrevation. I used their standard 3 blade Diamond head on my AS350 and it gave me zero issues or headaches setting it up. I did use longer ball links on the blades but after all was said and done, they may not have been needed as there is not a large pitch and swash range used in a scale helicopter. There is a 3mm hole dead centre in the top of the head for standard or oversized head buttons so you could get a mast made to mimic the one on the Apache and then just screw it on. The spindles are threaded and screw into the head block and use loctite to keep them in place. Set screws need not apply to this head. It can be used on 550 to 700 heli's as the head comes with a sleave for 10mm shafts and has a 12mm bore. The jesus bolt is 4mm so you must drill the shaft for the larger diameter bolt if you have a 550/600 mainshaft. Depending on your gyro, you can either set the phase mechanically or do it in the gyro but if you do it the first way, you will get better flying characteristics and that tip is from one of the world's top FAI pilots. He is using a three blade head on his latest helicopter and had to use electronics to phase that particular head, but if he had the choice, it would have been mechanical phasing for the piece of mind it brings. Take care.

Don
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 04:30 PM
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United States, WA, Steilacoom
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Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
If I could suggest that you look at the Century 4 blade head, it may save you some aggrevation. I used their standard 3 blade Diamond head on my AS350 and it gave me zero issues or headaches setting it up. I did use longer ball links on the blades but after all was said and done, they may not have been needed as there is not a large pitch and swash range used in a scale helicopter. There is a 3mm hole dead centre in the top of the head for standard or oversized head buttons so you could get a mast made to mimic the one on the Apache and then just screw it on. The spindles are threaded and screw into the head block and use loctite to keep them in place. Set screws need not apply to this head. It can be used on 550 to 700 heli's as the head comes with a sleave for 10mm shafts and has a 12mm bore. The jesus bolt is 4mm so you must drill the shaft for the larger diameter bolt if you have a 550/600 mainshaft. Depending on your gyro, you can either set the phase mechanically or do it in the gyro but if you do it the first way, you will get better flying characteristics and that tip is from one of the world's top FAI pilots. He is using a three blade head on his latest helicopter and had to use electronics to phase that particular head, but if he had the choice, it would have been mechanical phasing for the piece of mind it brings. Take care.

Don
I bought a century 4 blade head and the damm thing never worked... For a TRex 600 you have use a 12mm to 10mm sleve, then you have to cut the main shaft to accommodate the head, then you have to drill the 3mm Jesus bolt up to a 4mm... All that work and the head would not work correctly...
The heli shook like mad every time I tried to lift up. That was with weight match and perfectly balanced blades. Still to this day I haven't been able to use it... That was my experience with the century head. Phasing was spot on...
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 07:02 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
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That I can't explain but I have posted pictures and video of the 3 blade head in the air and to be fair, yes, I had to cut 3mm off the shaft to get it to fit and also drill out the bolt hole to put in the larger jesus bolt. If it spins up without the blades on and does not vibrate, then the blades may be the problem or how tight they are set in the grips. If you still have it, does it have a collar on the bottom of the head below the hole for the jesus bolt? Mine does have it and it takes the last of the play out of the fit of the sleave and head on the shaft. As silly as it sounds, how close did you set the links in length before spinning it up? I set mine up using one single link to adjust the blade for zero pitch, adjusted the rest to match, and didn't need to change the length of one single pitch link to track the blades Take care.

Don
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Old Sep 10, 2012, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
That I can't explain but I have posted pictures and video of the 3 blade head in the air and to be fair, yes, I had to cut 3mm off the shaft to get it to fit and also drill out the bolt hole to put in the larger jesus bolt. If it spins up without the blades on and does not vibrate, then the blades may be the problem or how tight they are set in the grips. If you still have it, does it have a collar on the bottom of the head below the hole for the jesus bolt? Mine does have it and it takes the last of the play out of the fit of the sleave and head on the shaft. As silly as it sounds, how close did you set the links in length before spinning it up? I set mine up using one single link to adjust the blade for zero pitch, adjusted the rest to match, and didn't need to change the length of one single pitch link to track the blades Take care.

Don
I hear you... I'm just saying that the one I got from them would not do the job, kept vibrating... Yes, it had th sleve and collar... the blades I used on that head where spot one balanced. I use the same blades on another head and no problems...

I got in touch with them I they did not want to hear it.. they kept saying that the link rods where too long... nothing I did fixed the issue, ended up buying a copter X flapping hing head and that one never gave me a lick of trouble.

I know that there are many out there that have had not problems... however, I lost a good amount of money on that thead, as they would not exchange it either.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 08:36 AM
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http://www.sportsmoto.co.uk/acatalog...-span----.html

last one on the bottom of the page?

Quick question. does anyone have a reliable quick shipping to the states link to buy a copterx head? And with the phasing involved with the flapping hinges, will this effect my input of my skookum gyro? I keep reading it does not need a mechanical gyro.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by buddertoast View Post
http://www.sportsmoto.co.uk/acatalog...-span----.html

last one on the bottom of the page?

Quick question. does anyone have a reliable quick shipping to the states link to buy a copterx head? And with the phasing involved with the flapping hinges, will this effect my input of my skookum gyro? I keep reading it does not need a mechanical gyro.
Are you in the USA?
RC Aerodyne sells them.... I used mine with the AR7200BX/microbeastx and it worked great.. had to lower the swash gain but other than that great head...
I see they're out of stock... The company that sells them in China are very good at shipping...you need to do it EMS to get it within two weeks or less...
http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/CopterX-...duct_info.html
Have you checked this site?
http://double-cats.com/sons/600-4h.html
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 01:33 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
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Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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josereyes:

If you by any chance still have the head, I could make some recommendations for the balls, links, and lengths of the rods that may let it be used, if not by you, by another person that you could sell it to. Let me know as it may make it salvageable. If you have sold it, NP, moving on. Take care.

Don
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
josereyes:

If you by any chance still have the head, I could make some recommendations for the balls, links, and lengths of the rods that may let it be used, if not by you, by another person that you could sell it to. Let me know as it may make it salvageable. If you have sold it, NP, moving on. Take care.

Don
I still have it... and it has never been flown other that short take-offs.. Also, it has never been crashed either... basically, I just could not get a decent hover without vibes... I know it was not the blades, and the phasing was correct..

I went with the recommendations from Century as far as using longer ball links for the blade grips, so it does have those on the head... Also longer ball links for the swash plate too, it was necessary to make them longer to clear the frame...

see the pic's.... just sitting collecting dust I have no need for it at this time. I also have a copter x flapping hinge head both 600 size..

Just realized that the jesus bolt has thread all the way and I've been reading here about how that has been causing vibes in other heads as well...
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 03:50 PM
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Mississauga, Ont., Can.
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Mine has a shouldered bolt and not a full threaded one and that could be a small part of the issue. I bought the Align 700 Nitro ball kit (all are 5.0mm in diameter vs. 4.8 for most others below 700's in size) and used the 12mm long (approx.) balls on the blade grip arms and the shorter 8.5mm balls on the swashplate. The rod lengths are as follows 82.5mm centre to centre and overall length of 89mm. I used this rod, ALIGN 700E Linkage rod (A) set H70066. It was very easy to get the length needed to set zero pitch with the blade over the boom. I am not advocating replacing a perfectly operating head but only pointing out that it could be used with some changes in hardware. This type of head does work very well with the SK720 gyro and I am sure it will work well with others. Those ball arms on yours would certainly give a large amount of deflection compared to the shorter ones on mine (I could easily get 14 degrees of pitch if I wanted) and the shorter ones will be a whole lot stiffer. I used their follower but had to try it in different holes until I found one that allowed it to work without binding on the link arms. I would also recommend to change the long ball links on the lower part of the swash to short ones. Here is a picture of my setup if you want to keep the head for another project. Take care.

Don

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Old Sep 11, 2012, 04:15 PM
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United States, WA, Steilacoom
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Originally Posted by Keyrigger View Post
Mine has a shouldered bolt and not a full threaded one and that could be a small part of the issue. I bought the Align 700 Nitro ball kit (all are 5.0mm in diameter vs. 4.8 for most others below 700's in size) and used the 12mm long (approx.) balls on the blade grip arms and the shorter 8.5mm balls on the swashplate. The rod lengths are as follows 82.5mm centre to centre and overall length of 89mm. I used this rod, ALIGN 700E Linkage rod (A) set H70066. It was very easy to get the length needed to set zero pitch with the blade over the boom. I am not advocating replacing a perfectly operating head but only pointing out that it could be used with some changes in hardware. This type of head does work very well with the SK720 gyro ande I am sure it will work well with others. Those ball arms on yours would certainly give a large amount of deflection compared to the shorter ones on mine (I could easily get 14 degrees of pitch if I wanted) and the shorter ones will be a whole lot stiffer. I used their follower but had to try it in different holes until I found one that allowed it to work without binding on the link arms. I would also recommend to change the long ball links on the lower part of the swash to short ones. Here is a picture of my setup if you want to keep the head for another project. Take care.

Don

I hear what you're saying, part of the problem was that I had to do mechanical phasing. In order to do that I hadvto use the longer ball links. Sure shorter links is preferably, but not with mechanical phasing, as it wouldn't clear the swash follower.
Part of the problem was that the AR7200BX did not have the provisions to do electronic phasing.. so that added to the problem. I wouldn't be surprised if the head flies fine when phased electronically, as you mentioned with the shorter ball links.
For now that's not to important, as I have a 5 blade head on the MD500. Is a shame, that is just sitting in a box.
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 04:34 PM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
Keyrigger's Avatar
Mississauga, Ont., Can.
Joined Sep 2009
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Yes, I can see and understand how you had to adjust for the positioning of the swash driver. If you ever get another project that needs a four blade head, you could try modifying the swash driver from a T-Rex, which uses offset arms and links rather than the straight 90 degree Century driver. Moving on so as to not beat this one too much, lol. Take care.

Don
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 05:55 PM
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how would i make the copterx electrically phased and not mechanically?
Jose you say you have a copterx ,your not using? want to sell it?
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by buddertoast View Post
how would i make the copterx electrically phased and not mechanically?
Jose you say you have a copterx ,your not using? want to sell it?
CopterX are meant to be mechanically phased. I guess you could phase it electronically. You would have to set the links straight and parallel to the main shaft, then adjust the phasing on the flybarless unit...

I also , have the century head that is mentioned a couple of post above this one...
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Old Sep 11, 2012, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by josereyes View Post
CopterX are meant to be mechanically phased. I guess you could phase it electronically. You would have to set the links straight and parallel to the main shaft, then adjust the phasing on the flybarless unit...

I also , have the century head that is mentioned a couple of post above this one...
Buddertoast
Here are the two 4 blade heads I got available...
One is CopterX 600 and Century 4 blade 12mm with a 10mm Sleve..

On the Century I could never get to work on my heli, due to the fact that I had to do a mechanically phasing and was causing interferience with the rods and follower, so I was getting vibrations... If you plan on doing the phasing electronically, then it should not be such a problem.
For the Century you will need a swash follower and the rods...

The Copter X is already mechanically phased and trimmed... of course you would have to adjust the servo to swash links...
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