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Old Feb 05, 2011, 10:54 AM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
Joined Mar 2005
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Ice 100 ESC &Hacker A50-16S max watts?

I have searched high and low for Hacker a50 settings for my Ice esc and found this from the Hacker esc manual,

Mode 2 Acro Outrunner - Mode for aerobatic models driven by Hacker Brushless A-Motors or 10-14pole Outrunner
- Brake not active
- Timing 24
- LiPo-Autodetect, slow down by 3,0V/cell

I found on the Hacker site that the recommended timing is "empf. Timing 20 - 25"

Could it really be that easy to get the max watts out of this motor controlled with the Ice 100 compared to the Hacker X-70 or 85HV?

Running V3.21 I went to my Castle link and tried to up the timing to 24 degrees but the software maxes out at 20 degrees. By raising the timing I was able to hit 1875 watts with an 18-10 Turnigy prop on my 65" Vyper. Going from low (0) which is 1738 watts, normal timing (5)(*) 1772 watts and 1822watts on high (10). There are 3 new (beta) firmwares available but reading the fixes has nothing to do with airplane/outrunner modes.

I then tried low timing with different PWM rates (all above testing was in outrunner mode!) and on 8khz was 1755 watts, 12khz was 1773 watts, 16khz was almost dead so I skipped trying 24. After 16khz and mid to high throttle was lethargic I decided I didn't want to let out the magic smoke on the Ice 100 so I skipped testing each of the other timing/PWM rates for max rpms.....curiosity was no match for my stronger willed wallet!

I have no idea what this told me in real life flying since it's snowing again, 25 degrees out and will be weeks before my Vyper maiden but I'll try some different settings once it's in the air. I have a funny feeling that at almost 200 watts per pound it ought to move around pretty good. Castle showed my rpm with the 18-10 Turnigy spinning at 7092 rpm.

I checked my Turnigy Watt meter against what the castle logged and definitely see differences between the too mostly being peak amps and watts. The Watt meter maxed out at 1875 watts where as the Castle logged 1943 watts, Watt meter peaked at some 78 amps and Castle showed 86 amps. All in all pretty close considering they are reading results from 2 different locations but I have no way of knowing which is the truer device. For my barbaric testing with the same battery from start to finish I suppose it's as accurate as I could expect.

Anyone try any of these settings for real life data as far as heat, run time, power in flight and damage to components and or batteries?

Thought or suggestions?

Tom
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 01:52 PM
SCY
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St. Louis, MO USA
Joined Dec 2009
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Hey, Tom. From what I can tell in the CastleLink software the timing setting in an ICE controller does not allow you to set degrees. The controller determines the appropriate range and the 0-20 setting determines where in that range you are. Lower being less watts but more efficient and higher being more watts and less efficient.

The motor timing description:
Motor timing advance settings changes the timing advance range used on the motor. Generally, low advance gives more efficiency and less power, high advance gives more power at the expense of efficiency (motor heat). Every system will respond to changes in advance differently. Castle Creations controllers automatically determine the correct and best range of timing advance for any motor they are plugged into. You can move up or down within that range via this settings.
Sean
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 02:04 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
Joined Mar 2005
1,517 Posts
So going to 20 on the timing is OK then to max out watts if needed? I'm trying to "guess" to why certain esc create more power than others. I just don't have a way to determine (read measure!) output power other than rpm at rated amp, volts, watts which is hard to do with out a perfect constant power supply.

Wish I knew what the timing is or what it advances to.

Tom
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 02:45 PM
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Richmond B.C. Canada
Joined Aug 2006
572 Posts
My A50-16s manual recommended timing is 20-25 degrees, recommended switching frequency 8-16 KHz. You are already over the recommended Max of 1250Watts! You wish to push the motor more? What are you asking?
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 02:58 PM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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United States, CA, Hayward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 172AMD View Post
My A50-16s manual recommended timing is 20-25 degrees, recommended switching frequency 8-16 KHz. You are already over the recommended Max of 1250Watts! You wish to push the motor more? What are you asking?
well....that 1250 watts is wayyyyyyyyy under what the motor is capable of. a lot of people have been pushing that motor to 1850+ watts consistantly without any issues what so ever. 1800 is about what i would expect outta this motor....i dont know what else you really want outta this motor
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 03:16 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcbirk21 View Post
well....that 1250 watts is wayyyyyyyyy under what the motor is capable of. a lot of people have been pushing that motor to 1850+ watts consistantly without any issues what so ever. 1800 is about what i would expect outta this motor....i dont know what else you really want outta this motor
+1 on that. As rcbirk21 wrote most are in the 1850 range with this motor. I was told that the Ice 100 has a hard time breaking the 1650 watt range. I was able to get into the low 1700's with an 18-10 prop.

I just want all I can get and no more than that! If there is power left on the table then there is wasted energy. I'm just looking for 100% (I know....I'm just dreaming!) of the 6s lipo's output or as close as that as I can get.

Tom
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 03:18 PM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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but you dont need to get all the power you can get out of a setup. there is such a thing as enough power. not enough to fly it, but enough to be happy. once you get to that point, then you dont have to stress your batteries, esc, or motor any more which will allow them to last much longer
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 03:26 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
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I'm doing some bench research right now. The weather is horrible here in Missouri so I'm trying to find all the basic facts. When I do fly it and the basic (*) settings work well then I'll leave it. If I fly around and find power lacking in one way or another I'll up the timing accordingly. If I find it has way to much power for me then I'll reduce the timing and enjoy the longer flying time or re prop to an 17-10/18-8 and try again. I'm normally a helicopter pilot and know power systems pretty well. Both high and low voltage. There is a learning process with a variable throttle vs a governed throttle with varying load. Just excited and trying to do some homework now to save time in the field. If I understand the "why's and how's" it will make adjustments easier to figure out.

Tom
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 03:41 PM
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Richmond B.C. Canada
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I am aware some are in the 1850 Watt range, just sounds like you want more. Fly it! If thats not enough for you go BIG.
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 04:21 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
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172AMD I guess your used to flying in cold weather up there.....I guess I'm more of a fair weather flier!!!

Bigger....yep. Ordered a 71" Slick just for that reason.

Tom
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Old Feb 05, 2011, 08:04 PM
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By big I mean bigger motor for the Vyper! 71" Slick works, 3D hobbyshop planes are nice, Have an Osiris myself.
I live on the wet coast, not too cold but our field is always very wet this time of year. Winter sucks!
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Old Feb 06, 2011, 11:59 AM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
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Could someone comment on this system in the 71" Slick running a 19-10 prop? Or is the recommended 19-10 prop suppose to be used with the A50-12L?

Tom
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Old Feb 06, 2011, 12:07 PM
Barefoot Birkinsomething
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IMO a 19x10 is the best prop for the slick (granted this was done with the 70 not the new 71). the recommended 19x10 is for the 12L on 6s in hot climate, or the motrolfly 4325-380 on 6s
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Old Feb 06, 2011, 12:18 PM
Pain? I know pain!
Weldon Spring, Missouri
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I wonder if it has been run on the 16S. I would assume that most of my flying is going to be mild throttle and I would think the extra prop would be nice in a pinch.

Don't want to burn the motor up just find the happiest spot I can.

Might just try it and check temp/watts/amps and see where it ends up.

Tom
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