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Old Feb 07, 2013, 03:56 AM
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United Kingdom, Scotland, Inverness
Joined Jan 2013
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Align Trex 600e PRO third bearing install

Hi, I am a relative beginner to this electric helicopter business but am in the process of building a Align trex 600e Pro. My mate who is an experienced rc pilot is going to check over the build and setup once I have completed it. My theory /observation is this.

On the stock build there is two main shaft bearing blocks. Top of chassis and middle. (taking a 10x19x5 bearing). Below the tail gearing is a section about, 12 mm, of main shaft exposed and unsupported (well supported by two above bearing blocks). Conveniently there is four holes drilled as standard in the chassis at the bottom, that the Align main bearing block holder lines up perfectly with (seems to me Align have played with the idea of a third bearing block).

Now there is a very very slight play in the new bearings and shaft when installed. Very minimal but it is noticeable. A standard bearing and block wont just fit on the bottom as the shaft has been turned down to 9mm at the bottom for the one way bearing, gears etc. In an ideal world a 9x19x5 bearing would press into the align bearing holder and fit nicely onto the 9mm bottom of the shaft. However I can not for the life of me find a 9x19x5 bearing. So I have had the bottom 10mm of my main shaft turned down to 8mm (still solid and with plenty meat on the shaft) and installed an 8x19x5 bearing into the align main bearing holder.

Now I have bolted it all up and the play is gone, its rock solid. It really makes a massive difference to the shaft play just turning it by hand. I have not powered it up as yet,. My problems is this,

Is there any benefit to the play being reduced ? (i would have thought reduced vibration etc). Seems almost to obvious to be true and I would have thought if there was any benefit to my new setup Align would have done the same???

Just cautious that there is a negative I have'nt considered to doing what I have done? I don't want to build it up only to damage something due to my meddling in something I am not yet comfortable with. I have another main shaft so its easy to revert back to standard.

Thanks

Hec

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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:16 AM
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You have to use the T-rex 600 Nitro third bearing bloc to insltall on your 600E pro.

This is a direct fit.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 01:23 PM
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thanks for the reply. I tried that , but it was about 5 mm too. Short


The bearing block that is . Cheers, hec
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 10:21 PM
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Nitro lower bearing is 9 X 17 X 5, the lower bearing bloc is different than the two upper.

I had the same issue in not finding 9 x 19 x 5 bearing, and came with a nitro parts.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 04:22 AM
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United Kingdom, Scotland, Inverness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Nitro lower bearing is 9 X 17 X 5, the lower bearing bloc is different than the two upper.

I had the same issue in not finding 9 x 19 x 5 bearing, and came with a nitro parts.
Ah I see, I must have had the 600ESP bearing block then as its not as wide. Good to know and saves having to get the shaft turned down.

So from the point of view of pilot who has flow the 600e pro with and without the third bearing install, does it make much of a difference to the heli in flight?

Thanks

Hec
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 09:35 AM
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Joined Sep 2010
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It depend what yu do with the heli, if you'r only doing basic and sport flying, it's not needed.

The third bloc help the frame from twisting and avoid the motor to rub on the servo in hard 3D, but this is not enough, you also need some stiffener on top.

In any case, you won't notice anything in flight.
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Old Feb 15, 2014, 01:03 AM
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Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Joined Sep 2003
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I am planning to do the 3rd bearing block mod on my 600 EFL Pro.

Here is how I am going to do it and parts needed.

Obtain stock bearing block

http://www.helidirect.com/align-600p...ro-p-23867.hdx

Buy a 6mm x 19mm x 6mm bearing

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7323

buy a 6mm hardened shaft

http://shop.osorail.com/product.sc?p...&categoryId=30

1. Remove the stock 10mm x 19mm x 5mm from the stock bearing block.

2. Loctite the 6mm x 19mm x 6mm bearing into the bearing block

3. Cut the 6mm shaft to length

4. Drill a hole through the 6mm shaft, this is where the 3mm x 20mm will go thru including the Autorotation tail drive and one-way bearing shaft.

5. Slide the 6mm shaft into the bottom of the main shaft, line up the holes and secure it with the 3mm x 20mm bolt.

This seems like the easiest way to do it while keeping the current H55006T shaft
but I could be wrong :-)

Gord.
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Old Feb 15, 2014, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martin_ View Post
Nitro lower bearing is 9 X 17 X 5, the lower bearing bloc is different than the two upper.

I had the same issue in not finding 9 x 19 x 5 bearing, and came with a nitro parts.
Do you have a part number for it by any chance?
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Old Feb 22, 2014, 09:06 PM
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United States, WA, Spokane
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Actually the third lower bearing is needed regardless of flying style. Here is why. Most if not all stock align factory main gears are never round. The bearings are rarely even abec 3. So the main shaft wallows around in the two bearing main support much like a straw twizzling around in a drink. Any shaft deflection during flight robs serious power and reduces efficiency.

Now lets fill in the rest of the picture. The pinion is pressuring the main gear as it turns, out of round of course. And the pinion itself is always pushing the main gear towards the farthest side of its movement away from itself. Now imagine the lower exposed gear set under the second bearing as an extended lever. One that the pinion pushes against. So when it hits the high spot in the rotating out of round gear, the pressure increases, and the low spot it reduces. This creates shaft wag during normal flights. As the whole gear assembly has to move off center axis, moving back and forth through the tight and loose side of the gear due to the severe pressure the pinion is exerting against it during flight. That effects the bearing life and also effects the TT coupling and even creates a belt stretch relax cycle in belt driven tails. On the TT setup it pushes the TT back and forth. This also results in a chatter in the motor as it hits the low side or sloppier side of the pinion to gear contact area. And severe vibrations as the gear set rocks around and wallows in the two bearing support angles. Each off center movement robs insane amounts of energy.

This is just a basic explanation. But valid results in many tests point at serious power losses due to this nasty design flaw. Just by introducing the third lower support bearing under the main gear set, it stabilizes the entire main shaft assembly, and the gear set can't be moved out beyond the max slop area of the lower bearing now. To really tighten things up I run abec 7 to 9 bearings in all mine. And cnc milled Kde main gears which are concentric.

Now, lets add in cyclic action up at the top of this shaft! The blades are now thrusting at different angles which results in huge angular pressures being exerted on the main shaft itself. Pushing it around in the lower slop angles the two main support bearings provide. Increasing gear chatter exponentially. Drop in that third bearing support down by the end of the lower shaft. And it eliminates almost 70 to 80% of this instability.

I just run the nitro shaft in all my third bearing modded 600s. And RcTek sells the lower third bearing support separately. http://www.rc-tek.com/store/i2rc-t60...ion-p2297.html
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Old Feb 24, 2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwong View Post
I am planning to do the 3rd bearing block mod on my 600 EFL Pro.

Here is how I am going to do it and parts needed.

Obtain stock bearing block

http://www.helidirect.com/align-600p...ro-p-23867.hdx

Buy a 6mm x 19mm x 6mm bearing

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit7323

buy a 6mm hardened shaft

http://shop.osorail.com/product.sc?p...&categoryId=30

1. Remove the stock 10mm x 19mm x 5mm from the stock bearing block.

2. Loctite the 6mm x 19mm x 6mm bearing into the bearing block

3. Cut the 6mm shaft to length

4. Drill a hole through the 6mm shaft, this is where the 3mm x 20mm will go thru including the Autorotation tail drive and one-way bearing shaft.

5. Slide the 6mm shaft into the bottom of the main shaft, line up the holes and secure it with the 3mm x 20mm bolt.

This seems like the easiest way to do it while keeping the current H55006T shaft
but I could be wrong :-)

Gord.
The 6mm shaft will probably run out slightly because the ID of the mainshaft isn't perfect. Most manufacturers do not guarantee the precision of the ID on tubular stock and I doubt that Align machines the inside of the shafts because it isn't necessary.

Even if it was perfect you'd still get some run out on the order of 0.05-0.1mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvmyhelis View Post

I just run the nitro shaft in all my third bearing modded 600s.
What's the difference in height between the nitro shaft and the 600e Pro one?
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Old Feb 24, 2014, 09:14 PM
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kansas city
Joined Feb 2007
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The nitro shaft adds the extra meat for the third bearing. I had to get one for my scale build.
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