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Old Yesterday, 09:10 AM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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"Normally" (and I say that with careful qualification - based on having spent decades testing software - so I understand the lack of 'normality' regarding programmers ) I'd expect the software to update the V-bar itself (as seen by the communication update info) and thus the software state and V-bar to be in synch.

Then what you save to a file, the thing that's save is the current contents of the software setting. It is indeed possible that if you disconnect the V-bar first that it might cause a random software setting update.

I always I save whilst still connected (and after I've done an explicit sync to the hardware). Always good to never trust software - especially if it smiles at you!
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Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
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Oh Lordy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Thanks Norman

The 'doh' question is probably the one to make the light dawn.
Anyway, I always save the vbr file, everytime. I know that this works because I get a message saying that the vbr file already exists and do I want to overwrite it.
Always answer yes, so the vbr file should be the latest one including the changes.
One thing just occurred to me.
When I make any changes, I know they go through to the Vbar, because I get a yellow light flashing while data is being transferred.
However, when I hit save, does that save the file in the software or that in the Vbar itself.
Wondering if, when I hit save it saves the file on the Vbar complete with changes and then presents this when I load next time.
Talk amongst yourselves for a minute while I try something

BL

Ok, Im back.

Couple of thoughts.

If you hover over the 'save' button you get a message saying 'save actual bank to file'.
What happens if you have two separate banks, as I have?
Not tried it yet, but if you save, say, bank '0' do you have to save bank '3' separately? If so, where?
Anyway, that's only an aside.
Might have stumbled upon something.
When you hit 'save' I think it saves the settings existing on the unit, not on the bank.
Sounds odd, but I disconnect the unit before saving, so it has no information to save.
Just tried something different. I reduced the HH gain down to 50% as before, but then hit 'save' before unplugging the unit.
Then unplugged everything. Opened up the Vstabi software without the unit plugged in and, lo and behold, HH gain still at 50%.
Exact opposite of what I had before.
Apologies for the non scientific explanation. As you can tell, my geek qualifications are still in the post, but does this sound feasible?

Phew!!!!!!!

BL

P.S. Must be on the right track, just started raining so can't do a check flight.

BL
When I save a .vbr file, it saves all the settings in all the banks, not just the current one.

One thing about your setup is that you are using a two position switch, if I recall correctly, to switch between banks 0 and 3, so you are not using banks 1 and 2.

I wonder if your switch settings are such that the gyro is on the cusp of going into bank 2? I played with the ATV's when I set my switches up so that each switch position corresponded to the middle of the range that would put the Kbar into a given bank. You've probably noticed that it takes a few seconds for the software to change from one bank to another, so you need to make sure it's showing the correct bank before you make any changes.

Also, since you aren't using banks 1 and 2, it's doubly important that you copy bank 0 into banks 1 and 2, to avoid any nasty surprises.

The default tail gain, when you open the software with no model connected, is 75. I think you wrote about having that as a surprise value, although you also had it in rate mode, whereas the default is lock mode.

You can check the settings in all banks when you load a .vbr file without the heli connected. When you hit the "save" button, my understanding is that it saves the current state of the heli to the .vbr file - but since you can save to a file without the heli connected, perhaps it simply saves the software settings. If the latter is the case, then loading that saved .vbr file back into the heli should "punch" the settings in.

The iCard doesn't hold the settings - it simply shows the gyro settings. I've been chasing tail wag and cyclic shakes in my Forza, and the iCard was really useful at the field.

On my Mini Titan, incidentally, I noticed that the plastic tail slider had split - so do rule out any mechanical issues first before trying to correct them in the Kbar. My Forza wag was caused by a missing bolt!
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Old Yesterday, 11:06 AM
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South London United Kingdom
Joined Jun 2003
1,253 Posts
Hi Guys

Norman
I ndrive a truck for a living, so what I know about software could be written in big type on the back of a stamp!
I bow to your greater knowledge of the subject, and agree completely that the Kbar and the software should be always in synch.
However, proof of the pudding, etc.
Just managed a quick hover out in the car park, and tail wag seems much reduced. Looks like I have found a way for the settings to 'stick' in the unit.
Still a way to go.
Got the Rate bit set up by using trim. On my radio this trim stays put whether in HH or rate, so I need to transfer trim to servo position, before I go any further, but now finally moving in the right direction.
Golden rule, save file before disconnecting computer.

2Doggs
Thanks for the confirmation that all banks are saved. Didn't think it could be any other way, but nice to know for sure.
Before I started I copied bank '0' to all the other banks so as to start from a known point.
Since then, I have been making changes only to one bank at a time. Seems to work ok, however I might use your idea of adjusting the aux atv so as to make sure it's not slipping into one of the intermediate banks on the way.
Currently have 100% each way on the aux switch. What would you suggest I reduce it to?
Out of interest would this affect the gyro setting on the Kbar?
Reason I ask is, although the wag is almost gone is still needs some work, but on the Kbar it's already down to 50% and the slider only goes to 40%.
If I reduce the atv on the transmitter will that give me more scope on the Kbar?
BTW, without the model connected, how do I make adjustments to other than the current bank?
I'm guessing it's either 'active bank selection' or 'edit bank selection' but neither seems to make any difference.

Thanks to all for your help. feeling slightly less of a dummy that I used to.

Cheers

BL
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Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM
Jessthegreat
jessdigs's Avatar
United States, CA, Concord
Joined May 2013
215 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Hi Guys

Norman
I ndrive a truck for a living, so what I know about software could be written in big type on the back of a stamp!
I bow to your greater knowledge of the subject, and agree completely that the Kbar and the software should be always in synch.
However, proof of the pudding, etc.
Just managed a quick hover out in the car park, and tail wag seems much reduced. Looks like I have found a way for the settings to 'stick' in the unit.
Still a way to go.
Got the Rate bit set up by using trim. On my radio this trim stays put whether in HH or rate, so I need to transfer trim to servo position, before I go any further, but now finally moving in the right direction.
Golden rule, save file before disconnecting computer.

2Doggs
Thanks for the confirmation that all banks are saved. Didn't think it could be any other way, but nice to know for sure.
Before I started I copied bank '0' to all the other banks so as to start from a known point.
Since then, I have been making changes only to one bank at a time. Seems to work ok, however I might use your idea of adjusting the aux atv so as to make sure it's not slipping into one of the intermediate banks on the way.
Currently have 100% each way on the aux switch. What would you suggest I reduce it to?
Out of interest would this affect the gyro setting on the Kbar?
Reason I ask is, although the wag is almost gone is still needs some work, but on the Kbar it's already down to 50% and the slider only goes to 40%.
If I reduce the atv on the transmitter will that give me more scope on the Kbar?
BTW, without the model connected, how do I make adjustments to other than the current bank?
I'm guessing it's either 'active bank selection' or 'edit bank selection' but neither seems to make any difference.

Thanks to all for your help. feeling slightly less of a dummy that I used to.

Cheers

BL
Just a quick question, ahh ate you wanting to fly in rate mode?
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Old Yesterday, 11:48 AM
Registered User
South London United Kingdom
Joined Jun 2003
1,253 Posts
Hi Jess

Just personal really. Came up through fixed wing aerobatics, where you 'fly the tail' all the time.
Feels more comfortable having the tail where you want it, rather than where the computer says it should be, especially in high speed 'bank and yank' manouevres.

Cheers

BL
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 PM
just gotta mess with it!
2Doggs's Avatar
North West Louisiana
Joined Nov 2009
4,823 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
2Doggs
Thanks for the confirmation that all banks are saved. Didn't think it could be any other way, but nice to know for sure.
Before I started I copied bank '0' to all the other banks so as to start from a known point.
Since then, I have been making changes only to one bank at a time. Seems to work ok, however I might use your idea of adjusting the aux atv so as to make sure it's not slipping into one of the intermediate banks on the way.
Currently have 100% each way on the aux switch. What would you suggest I reduce it to?BL
what I did was adjust my ATV's until the gyro flipped into say bank 0 to bank 1. Then I kept on adjusting until it flipped into bank 2. After that, I set the ATV mid way between those values. You should be able to do something similar to switch between bank 0 and bank 3 - though you may end up with the same values you already have! Maybe you could copy bank 3 to bank 2, then it wouldn't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Out of interest would this affect the gyro setting on the Kbar?
No, because once you select "Bank 0/1/2/3" in the "Active Bank Selection" box, the gain is set by the software and kept in the Kbar settings rather than controlled by your TX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Reason I ask is, although the wag is almost gone is still needs some work, but on the Kbar it's already down to 50% and the slider only goes to 40%.
Whilst the slider only goes down to 40, you can actually type in a lower value and hit "enter" and it seems to keep that value, even though the slider will show 40. I've tried doing that, and the .vbr file seems to confirm it - setting tail gain in bank 0 to 3 (!!), it shows "<VALUE Register="50" Value="3"/>" in the .vbr file.

With the ZYX and CX gyros, the .ini file was quite easy to read, and I could program my gyros by editing the .ini file with Notepad - the .vbr file is much more obfuscated, though!

Are you sure it's a gain-related wag? That should be a fast wag. Mechanical problems can result in a slow wag, and random glitches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
If I reduce the atv on the transmitter will that give me more scope on the Kbar?
I don't think it will give you more range, bearing in mind the discussion of gain below 40 above. You might be able to confirm things by looking at the monitor screen in the software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
BTW, without the model connected, how do I make adjustments to other than the current bank?
I'm guessing it's either 'active bank selection' or 'edit bank selection' but neither seems to make any difference.
I haven't found a way of doing this without the heli connected, other than directly editing the .vbr file. That's a bit of a daunting prospect, however, since there are 142 lines of values. I thought I was onto something when I changed the "Edit bank selection" value to 1, whilst in the normal settings, then clicked on the "Expert" button, to see the "Edit parameter bank" also change to 1 - but I was not able to edit any values in any of the banks other than bank 0 in a way that showed up in the .vbr file.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Thanks to all for your help. feeling slightly less of a dummy that I used to.

Cheers

BL
Just remember to fly the heli every now and then! Raining all day here today and tomorrow!
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Old Yesterday, 01:24 PM
Official Old Git!
Hampshire, UK
Joined Sep 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Hi Jess

Just personal really. Came up through fixed wing aerobatics, where you 'fly the tail' all the time.
Feels more comfortable having the tail where you want it, rather than where the computer says it should be, especially in high speed 'bank and yank' manouevres.

Cheers

BL
I started on heli's before there were gyros!

Consequently, I'm also happier with rate mode (it took a long time for HH gyros to make an appearance).
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Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
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Joined Jan 2012
339 Posts
#1 Watching " Mr Mel videos" (ALL of them) is where this journey should start.
#2 open vstabi in your computer and force yourself to understand every single parameter.
#3 Years later when you still don't know wth is going on, beg your mate David (Beenflying) to sort out your issues for you.

It's all quite simple really..
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