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Old Jan 06, 2012, 04:12 AM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,142 Posts
Hi all,

I just finished installing my almost plug & play b/l kit with linear throttle from Dylan. CO5M motor, 8T, 140mm boom, lower frame brace w/boom supports, and the 43G tail motor w/KBDD rotor. I only had to solder the signal wire to the small resistor. The kit went in without a hitch. Of course, Dylan's workmanship is excellent. The weights are with the bullet blades & Dylan's lower frame brace.

Empty weight: 40.0g
AUW w/Hyp 240: 46.7g
AUW w/TP 240: 46.54g

I test-flew it in the living room, and everything was perfect. I only had to make a couple of small tweaks to my normal mode throttle curve. Throttle-response in normal mode is buttery-smooth. I just had to do some hard pitch-pumps to see how the tail behaves. It's absolutely rock-solid!

Looking forward to getting in some flights at our indoor session on Sat night.

Joel
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 05:32 AM
mCPx
Race Miata's Avatar
Vancouver, Canada
Joined Nov 2004
190 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
So basicly it does what i was saying as it adjusts the end points of the curve and does not scale or compress them.
That is so not true. "Travel Adjust" on my DX6i definitely scales/compresses the entire half stick range. Don't confuse 65% travel adjust to 65% pitch setting on the pitch curve. 65% up-pitch "travel adjust" means compressing the upper half stick positions by 65%. Assuming a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve, what it was full stick up (100% on pitch curve) now outputs 65% of upper half stick channel signal which means 50% + (50% * .65) pitch = 82.5% pitch on the pitch curve. What it was 3/4 stick up (75% on pitch curve = 50% of full stick up) now becomes 50% + 25% x 0.65 = 66.25% on pitch curve. The easiest way to test this is set a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve. Move 3/4 stick up and change up-pitch travel adjust from 100 to 75 to 125. With your theory, servo should not move at all. I can guarantee you the servo moves directly proportional to how much you change travel adjust for up pitch. And with your theory, there's no reason to set travel adjust over 100%.

Quote:
Different or uneven end points will not make the heli jumpy from what he described. The heli will either loose more negative or more positive pitch.
I'm not saying that's causing the OP's jumpy heli. I'm just saying "travel adjust" doesn't just set endpoints. It scales the entire half stick range.
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 08:08 AM
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Arthure's Avatar
United States, AZ, Surprise
Joined Mar 2007
543 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_matt View Post
Just a quick crappy quality video of me doing some inverted flying in my living room! I have been working on finally getting good enough to fly my Mcpx inverted in my house, and I have finally got to this point! It feels so good!!

http://youtu.be/wMBvHIMhNqk
Nice Indoor flying!

Arthur
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 08:50 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Hi all,

I just finished installing my almost plug & play b/l kit with linear throttle from Dylan. CO5M motor, 8T, 140mm boom, lower frame brace w/boom supports, and the 43G tail motor w/KBDD rotor. I only had to solder the signal wire to the small resistor. The kit went in without a hitch. Of course, Dylan's workmanship is excellent. The weights are with the bullet blades & Dylan's lower frame brace.

Empty weight: 40.0g
AUW w/Hyp 240: 46.7g
AUW w/TP 240: 46.54g

I test-flew it in the living room, and everything was perfect. I only had to make a couple of small tweaks to my normal mode throttle curve. Throttle-response in normal mode is buttery-smooth. I just had to do some hard pitch-pumps to see how the tail behaves. It's absolutely rock-solid!

Looking forward to getting in some flights at our indoor session on Sat night.

Joel
Joel! Good to see you in another part of the world! I recent picked up one of these and I'm trying to learn to fly it. It's a whole new ballgame for me with a helicopter. I can't sling that thing around like I can with my fixed wing stuff!
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:22 AM
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
habitforming's Avatar
USA, KY, Hebron
Joined Dec 2005
2,730 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turboparker View Post
Hi all,

I just finished installing my almost plug & play b/l kit with linear throttle from Dylan. CO5M motor, 8T, 140mm boom, lower frame brace w/boom supports, and the 43G tail motor w/KBDD rotor. I only had to solder the signal wire to the small resistor. The kit went in without a hitch. Of course, Dylan's workmanship is excellent. The weights are with the bullet blades & Dylan's lower frame brace.

Empty weight: 40.0g
AUW w/Hyp 240: 46.7g
AUW w/TP 240: 46.54g

I test-flew it in the living room, and everything was perfect. I only had to make a couple of small tweaks to my normal mode throttle curve. Throttle-response in normal mode is buttery-smooth. I just had to do some hard pitch-pumps to see how the tail behaves. It's absolutely rock-solid!

Looking forward to getting in some flights at our indoor session on Sat night.

Joel
Hi Joel - you're usually good with these details as I recall - is there any chance you measured the current draw on the brushless system? I'm starting to look that direction, and am wondering if my current batteries can hack it.
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:41 AM
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StangGuy's Avatar
Joined Mar 2007
107 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
That is so not true. "Travel Adjust" on my DX6i definitely scales/compresses the entire half stick range. Don't confuse 65% travel adjust to 65% pitch setting on the pitch curve. 65% up-pitch "travel adjust" means compressing the upper half stick positions by 65%. Assuming a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve, what it was full stick up (100% on pitch curve) now outputs 65% of upper half stick channel signal which means 50% + (50% * .65) pitch = 82.5% pitch on the pitch curve. What it was 3/4 stick up (75% on pitch curve = 50% of full stick up) now becomes 50% + 25% x 0.65 = 66.25% on pitch curve. The easiest way to test this is set a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve. Move 3/4 stick up and change up-pitch travel adjust from 100 to 75 to 125. With your theory, servo should not move at all. I can guarantee you the servo moves directly proportional to how much you change travel adjust for up pitch. And with your theory, there's no reason to set travel adjust over 100%.


I'm not saying that's causing the OP's jumpy heli. I'm just saying "travel adjust" doesn't just set endpoints. It scales the entire half stick range.
And this supports my original point as well. If you only change the "-" travel adjust setting and neglect the "+" travel adjust range, it will have normal range/resolution above mid-stick (i.e. above mid-stick will allow for full 50% to 100% pitch movement if using a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve).

If you change travel adjust to 75% on "+" and "-" as recommended in the manual, you will get now get 50% to 87.5% pitch range from mid-stick to full-up. If you leave it at 100% you will get 50% to 100%. More pitch travel per unit of stick movement will make it more "jumpy" for a more novice pilot not used to making small pitch adjustments during flight. I've seen it myself on my own heli, so I know it's true.
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 09:48 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
Guys... sorry I kicked off such a debate. But I did change both my negative and positive pitch.
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 10:27 AM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
7,349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Miata View Post
That is so not true. "Travel Adjust" on my DX6i definitely scales/compresses the entire half stick range. Don't confuse 65% travel adjust to 65% pitch setting on the pitch curve. 65% up-pitch "travel adjust" means compressing the upper half stick positions by 65%. Assuming a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve, what it was full stick up (100% on pitch curve) now outputs 65% of upper half stick channel signal which means 50% + (50% * .65) pitch = 82.5% pitch on the pitch curve. What it was 3/4 stick up (75% on pitch curve = 50% of full stick up) now becomes 50% + 25% x 0.65 = 66.25% on pitch curve. The easiest way to test this is set a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve. Move 3/4 stick up and change up-pitch travel adjust from 100 to 75 to 125. With your theory, servo should not move at all. I can guarantee you the servo moves directly proportional to how much you change travel adjust for up pitch. And with your theory, there's no reason to set travel adjust over 100%.
.
Lets stick with your top number of 65% in travel adjust. That doesnt compress or scale the throttle/pitch stick at all as it has nothing to do with transmitter stick input or movement. It limits the servos upper movement from the servos center point to it highest point which instead of 100% throw is now only 65% travel.

Effectively the 65% setting becomes the new 100% as the travel adjust limits or resets your servos end point back from true 100% full travel. This is why it is also called EPA or endpoint adjustment as it permanently changes what your tx see at the servo's 100% movement. Travel has nothing to do with a pitch curve other than limiting your maximum positive or negative pitch on a one servo swash setup. Your pitch curve is what determines your stick input pitch from midstick to top stick. Though if you limit your servos through travel adjust to 85% then a 100% on your pitch curve will max out at 85% of the servos travel as the tx see's the 85% travel adjustment as now the servo's full movement (100%)


As far as not making the servo move at all you have a 100% range for each side of the servo so 0% of each side of the servo travel would equal no movement.

Also 125% travel does increase servo travel past 100% on normal servos so it gives more collective range by extending throw. Though do not do it with linear servos as it will ruin them with continued use like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StangGuy View Post
And this supports my original point as well. If you only change the "-" travel adjust setting and neglect the "+" travel adjust range, it will have normal range/resolution above mid-stick (i.e. above mid-stick will allow for full 50% to 100% pitch movement if using a 0-25-50-75-100 pitch curve).
.
he wasnt using a linear curve, though if he was it would only change the maximum pitch being able to be reached and spread it through the 50-75-100 equally. This still would not make his heli jumpy as it wouldnt be a fast transition from negative to positive, it would however give him more pop on the upper stick yet less negative on the bottom of the stick.
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Last edited by indoorheli; Jan 06, 2012 at 11:35 AM. Reason: clarified
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 10:29 AM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Guys... sorry I kicked off such a debate. But I did change both my negative and positive pitch.
Glad you reduced those and it worked for you
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 10:46 AM
Gone Huckin'
turnerm's Avatar
Charlotte, NC
Joined Jan 2011
9,262 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by indoorheli View Post
Glad you reduced those and it worked for you
Sorry - I wasn't clear. I meant that I changed my Pitch Travel Adjust for both directions.

I did, however setup my radio to use a lowest negative pitch of 42 and a highest positive pitch of 85 to see how I like it. I'll run out at lunch and give it a shot.

I got my 34" EPP Edge stuck on the roof of my house last night and spent the evening trying to get it down. I was unsuccessful unfortunately. But I ran out of daylight so I couldn't try my new mCPx settings. I'll do that today while I'm waiting on the wind to blow my dang plane back down to terra firma!
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 10:47 AM
Registered User
USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Feb 2007
851 Posts
Indoor, maybe you can clarify this Travel Adjust related to Pitch range or servo movement with respect to another Heli I fly. That is a 450 Pro with CCPM and a normal FB head.

On my 450, I have the Travel Adjust values on all servos at 100% in both directions other than Rudder. I have thought that using the SWASH (CCPM mode) with something like 60-70 range for Pitch is what controls the maximum Pitch I can setup for flying. Should I be also using Travel Adjustment on the Pitch, Elev and Aile servos?

BC
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 11:03 AM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
7,349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Sorry - I wasn't clear. I meant that I changed my Pitch Travel Adjust for both directions.

I did, however setup my radio to use a lowest negative pitch of 42 and a highest positive pitch of 85 to see how I like it. I'll run out at lunch and give it a shot.

I got my 34" EPP Edge stuck on the roof of my house last night and spent the evening trying to get it down. I was unsuccessful unfortunately. But I ran out of daylight so I couldn't try my new mCPx settings. I'll do that today while I'm waiting on the wind to blow my dang plane back down to terra firma!
How ever you did it end point adjustment or curves, what was need was to tame your maximum and negative pitch too make the bttom and top end less jumpy...glad it worked

Though in the future you might find it easier to only limit your servos as much as you have to during proper mechanical setup. This way you dont have to reconfigure your endpoints when you want to use advanced curves or different curves with maximum possible servo movements

If you figure out what maximum travel your heli can take at the beginning when you first get your heli, you can leave those endpoints set for the life of your heli. Then you only need change your curve to make a more mellow or more advanced flyer.
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Last edited by indoorheli; Jan 06, 2012 at 11:15 AM.
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 11:24 AM
2 seconds from crashing
indoorheli's Avatar
United States, WA, Seattle
Joined Sep 2007
7,349 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Crasher View Post
Indoor, maybe you can clarify this Travel Adjust related to Pitch range or servo movement with respect to another Heli I fly. That is a 450 Pro with CCPM and a normal FB head.

On my 450, I have the Travel Adjust values on all servos at 100% in both directions other than Rudder. I have thought that using the SWASH (CCPM mode) with something like 60-70 range for Pitch is what controls the maximum Pitch I can setup for flying. Should I be also using Travel Adjustment on the Pitch, Elev and Aile servos?

BC
BC

Cyclic/collective pitch mixing (ccpm) is different on your 450 since you have access to the ccpm menu by using the 120 degree/3 servo setting and not one servo setting. On the mcpx you have no access to ccpm mixing so you have to limit the pitch through the travel adjust.

On my larger helis i like to max out all servos and adjust through the ccpm menu for collective and cyclic pitch
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 11:30 AM
Registered User
USA, WA, Bremerton
Joined Feb 2007
851 Posts
thanks
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Old Jan 06, 2012, 12:21 PM
Gopher huntin' stick jockey
turboparker's Avatar
East Bethel, MN USA
Joined Jul 2009
12,142 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnerm View Post
Joel! Good to see you in another part of the world! I recent picked up one of these and I'm trying to learn to fly it. It's a whole new ballgame for me with a helicopter. I can't sling that thing around like I can with my fixed wing stuff!
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitforming View Post
Hi Joel - you're usually good with these details as I recall - is there any chance you measured the current draw on the brushless system? I'm starting to look that direction, and am wondering if my current batteries can hack it.
Turnerm,

Cool - we meet again!

Yeah, I decided to get into helis about three years ago. Started out with the mSR right when they came out, and then picked up a BSR on which to learn CP. After a year of learning new swear-words & never progressing beyond the hover & slow-flight stage with that evil-handling bird, I pre-ordered the mCP X. Within a half-hour, I was doing FFF circuits, figure-eights, and was taking off, hovering, and landing nose-in. Within the first two hours, I had done my first roll, flip, and loop! Best money I've spent on the heli side of the hobby!

I'm primarily scale & sport heli pilot who enjoys a few aerobatic maneuvers now & then. I wanted to go brushless & upgrade the tail - primarily for the consistency of brushless and to improve rudder authority. So far, I'm loving it!

Good luck with learning CP - I found it to be a rewarding experience. I think the most difficult part for me was (and still is) to get the tail to come around in a scale manner during turns.

HF,

Usually, I am reasonably good with details. However, I did not measure the current because I don't have a convenient way of doing that on these UM aircraft. I wonder if Dylan has measured the current. Maybe someone on his thread has done so: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1405120

Joel
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Last edited by turboparker; Jan 06, 2012 at 04:28 PM.
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