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Old May 01, 2012, 07:47 AM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Okay, I have some questions as well as some things to show. I think I kinda got a bum deal here with this heli's RX and servos.


First. I was looking at the wow manual and user manual for how to program the RX and all that. Since I'm generally used to the 2618 or smaller RXs that don't quite program the same way. It says that all of the dip switches have to be in the on position. So.. The tabs on 2 of my dip switches look broken off. I didn't mess with them but who else here thinks I'm kinda screwed here? (See picture below)

Second. My rudder rod guide tube appears to be broken in the middle (see picture) The tube pieces are secure, should I just replace it? Also, it broke because the horizontal stabilizer does not secure tightly to the boom. It has machine screws holding the stabilizer rods on. Should these be tapping screws to bite into the boom, like my 4f200, or maybe my machine screws are too short?

Third. This heli was supposed to be a wowhobbies MGS-Pro helicoper. Take a look at the pictures of the servos and gears inside them. Tell me whats up here? Are these really 9-8s or 9-9s? If they are 09-8s will it matter that the single replacement i purchased is a 09-9? Also take a look at the terrible solder job on the servo I stripped in the crash, it had a 1mm or more bare leads on the wire. Plus the solder point. I also took the suggestion of others here and moved the wires around on the good servos so the wires do not short from running hot.

Fourth. After replacing my main gear, the gear base and sleeve were like exploded. Is this normal after a crash? The sleeve was in pieces and the roller bearing in the base fell apart as well. Quite crazy. No pictures of that though. So i looked at my belt. It has some spots where some of the teeth are a little flatter than the rest, but basically still teeth. Should i also just replace this or will it hold out? these teeth are so big compared to my other belt helicopters. I don't want to waste a belt for nothing, and i don't want to crash because of a stupid belt again either.

And lastly, Turns out my FS is an Align. So more than likely the Align dampeners will probably work in this head. I'm still going to try the trueblood green ones. But inspection of mine resulted in like new condition. I'm assuming the previous owner crashed this heli and decided to stop paying for it and sell it.
Let me first say im sorry my answers are out of order but i kinda get ADHD when i read long posts like this lol

Sorry to hear about your v450 woes, Ive got to say as long as you get the latest wow hobbies pro servos they actually hold up quite nice (except for the wires crossing over the FET's, but that can be fixed) I have the same pro version from WOW and ive had a couple issues with the ESC and BEC but after swapping that for an align 35a ive been great.

The single plasitc gear in the servos you show is normal for all metal servos, you need something along the drive that has a little give, thats what it is for, and its soo far down the order of gears that it wont strip in a crash.. my servos have been through some very tough crashes and i havent lost one yet! (of course i also re ran the wires so as not to go over FET's). PS always keep all your swash servos the same make model and version!!!

As far as the machine screws vs self tappers, im not exactly sure which set you are referring to but if i remember correctly all the screws holding my stabilizer assimbley together and on boom where machine, but you can check the explode diagram and this should tell you what it SHOULD be http://www.walkera.com/cn/upload/picture/V450D01_ex.jpg

as far as the receiver/flybarless unit there's no way i can have a single complaint about this, its flat out worked great and given me better performance and handling than ones twice the cost, as far as dips go all 4 of mine are in the ON position, so thats ok, youll never need to change those.

Yes replace the guide tube for the servo arm, you do not want your servo binding here and its so cheap why wouldn't you do it anyway!

As far as the main gear bearing id say thats too important to try and fix, go ahead and replace the one way bearing, same thoughts on belt, but this time use a little lithium grease on it, it will help prolong its life.

And as long as your blade tracking looks good and your not getting any funky vibes id say your FS are fine


When you say burn deal... do you mind me asking what you paid for it? and by reading you post it doesent seem there's really much that's non functional here, theres a couple parts in need of replacing but that seems it, you should have a fully functional heli in as long as it takes UPS to deliver your one way bearing which is all that i believe has you grounded here.
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Old May 01, 2012, 06:20 PM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
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Originally Posted by jhebbel View Post
Let me first say im sorry my answers are out of order but i kinda get ADHD when i read long posts like this lol

Sorry to hear about your v450 woes, Ive got to say as long as you get the latest wow hobbies pro servos they actually hold up quite nice (except for the wires crossing over the FET's, but that can be fixed) I have the same pro version from WOW and ive had a couple issues with the ESC and BEC but after swapping that for an align 35a ive been great.

The single plasitc gear in the servos you show is normal for all metal servos, you need something along the drive that has a little give, thats what it is for, and its soo far down the order of gears that it wont strip in a crash.. my servos have been through some very tough crashes and i havent lost one yet! (of course i also re ran the wires so as not to go over FET's). PS always keep all your swash servos the same make model and version!!!

As far as the machine screws vs self tappers, im not exactly sure which set you are referring to but if i remember correctly all the screws holding my stabilizer assimbley together and on boom where machine, but you can check the explode diagram and this should tell you what it SHOULD be http://www.walkera.com/cn/upload/picture/V450D01_ex.jpg

as far as the receiver/flybarless unit there's no way i can have a single complaint about this, its flat out worked great and given me better performance and handling than ones twice the cost, as far as dips go all 4 of mine are in the ON position, so thats ok, youll never need to change those.

Yes replace the guide tube for the servo arm, you do not want your servo binding here and its so cheap why wouldn't you do it anyway!

As far as the main gear bearing id say thats too important to try and fix, go ahead and replace the one way bearing, same thoughts on belt, but this time use a little lithium grease on it, it will help prolong its life.

And as long as your blade tracking looks good and your not getting any funky vibes id say your FS are fine


When you say burn deal... do you mind me asking what you paid for it? and by reading you post it doesent seem there's really much that's non functional here, theres a couple parts in need of replacing but that seems it, you should have a fully functional heli in as long as it takes UPS to deliver your one way bearing which is all that i believe has you grounded here.
Yeah i know there is usually one plastic gear. look at this link to the wow hobbies servo that is a 09-9. It should be the same servo i have here. http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-v450d01...of3servos.aspx

The gear arrangement on the wow hobbies photo and my servo are very,very obviously different. As for the plastic gear not stripping. LOL, Well it did. its the only gear with any damage at all out of all 3 servos. I checked them all, greased the reaming 2 good servos and rerouted the wires also.

The reason i say i got a bum deal with the RX and servos is because, maybe its hard to see in the picture. But my RX has the Aile and elevator switches both in the OFF position and reversed in the TX. Soooo..... Plus looking at the photo from wow hobbies and my servo. I think i have a 09-8 servo with a 09-9 sticker or lid on it. But i have no way to tell since this is my first v450, purchased used.

As for the price i actually got a good deal on it. But the ESC burned out on the second pack and now i might need to get a new RX. So its value is beginning to diminish. Still a good deal: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1630

$470 shipped.

Looking at the pictures in the link above from when i got the helicopter. I can now obviously see what cased the ESC to burn out. The RX wire was not only laying over components that get hot inside the ESC. But the previous owner tie wrapped right over it and cinched it down. Plus the ESC is on upside down, in my opinion. The aluminum cooling plate is pressed against the fame of the helicopter. Just my opinion but it should be facing the down draft from the rotor.
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Old May 01, 2012, 06:55 PM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
United States, FL, Seminole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yeah i know there is usually one plastic gear. look at this link to the wow hobbies servo that is a 09-9. It should be the same servo i have here. http://www.wowhobbies.com/hm-v450d01...of3servos.aspx

The gear arrangement on the wow hobbies photo and my servo are very,very obviously different. As for the plastic gear not stripping. LOL, Well it did. its the only gear with any damage at all out of all 3 servos. I checked them all, greased the reaming 2 good servos and rerouted the wires also.
Looking at it more closely it obviously is different, the one plastic gear stripping on you is unfortunate, but i think is just bad luck, the only thing i can think of that would strip the first gear in a series like this not a crash but the servo extents may be set up incorrect and the micro motor itself may have stripped it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
The reason i say i got a bum deal with the RX and servos is because, maybe its hard to see in the picture. But my RX has the Aile and elevator switches both in the OFF position and reversed in the TX. Soooo..... Plus looking at the photo from wow hobbies and my servo. I think i have a 09-8 servo with a 09-9 sticker or lid on it. But i have no way to tell since this is my first v450, purchased used.
Again unfortunate, but the broken and reversed dips should have no effect as you can reverse in tx, as for the sticker could be, but this doesn't look like an 08 either, 08 has more plastic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
As for the price i actually got a good deal on it. But the ESC burned out on the second pack and now i might need to get a new RX. So its value is beginning to diminish. Still a good deal: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1630

$470 shipped.

Looking at the pictures in the link above from when i got the helicopter. I can now obviously see what cased the ESC to burn out. The RX wire was not only laying over components that get hot inside the ESC. But the previous owner tie wrapped right over it and cinched it down. Plus the ESC is on upside down, in my opinion. The aluminum cooling plate is pressed against the fame of the helicopter. Just my opinion but it should be facing the down draft from the rotor.
regarding the ESC, possibly, but i tend to think that walkera way overestimates the amperage rating of these ESC's and its a bad pair with the TA motor. also the power supply in the ESC is not a switching supply so eccess power is let off as heat causing the ESC to burn out easy on heavy draw. the walkera ESC is rated at 40a and my new Align is 35a and runs much cooler with no problems at all even with my heavy payload...
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Old May 01, 2012, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jhebbel View Post
The walkera ESC is rated at 40a and my new Align is 35a and runs much cooler with no problems at all even with my heavy payload...
Is the Align ESC's BEC a switching BEC? A linear battery eliminator circuit reduces voltage from the battery basically using heat. So a linear BEC will heat up no matter what and a switching BEC should always run cooler. But coupled with the peaking near 60A load on the turboace motor I will be upgrading to a hobbywing 60A ESC because it is the best deal i have found so far. I only ordered another stock walkera ESC because i didn't want to wait for shipping from china. I'm not patient at all. So I installed a heat sink on the stock ESC and it is only moderately warm after a hover only flight. It also cools down quicker after the flight, which was the main goal. I have no doubt with this heat sink in the rotor wash i should be able to fly many flights with no issue or overheating. But none the less, a new ESC will eventually be ordered for this and my 4f200. Today my v120d05 with a turboace 214 motor lost thrust on the rotor so i landed it and checked the battery. 3.89v but the ESC was a little hot. I let it cool, hooked up the same battery and flew the rest of the pack with no problems. So I might need to look into a better ESC for this as well.
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Old May 01, 2012, 09:05 PM
Making Stock Fly Like Modified
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BL35X or P the latest are linear BEC, the X =2A for FB the P=3A for FBL. Linear gets hot yes but provides a cleaner power source, whereas switch runs cooler, but because of the high switching freq's can inject noise into the RX.

Best setup for the FBL rx's IMO is an opto-isolated ESC which uses a form of light instead of electrical means to transfer the signal (although still electronic components used) to the RX, which means youd have to run a external BEC. On a 450 its a little overkill but can easily be done. External BEC's can be had for 11 bucks up to 5A and they are small enough to fit the V450s expansive frame.

I went with Castle Ice 50 for the data logging, 5A BEC and Governor mode, if you have flown a heli with a governed headspeed you dont know what your missing
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Old May 01, 2012, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
BL35X or P the latest are linear BEC, the X =2A for FB the P=3A for FBL. Linear gets hot yes but provides a cleaner power source, whereas switch runs cooler, but because of the high switching freq's can inject noise into the RX.

Best setup for the FBL rx's IMO is an opto-isolated ESC which uses a form of light instead of electrical means to transfer the signal (although still electronic components used) to the RX, which means youd have to run a external BEC. On a 450 its a little overkill but can easily be done. External BEC's can be had for 11 bucks up to 5A and they are small enough to fit the V450s expansive frame.

I went with Castle Ice 50 for the data logging, 5A BEC and Governor mode, if you have flown a heli with a governed headspeed you dont know what your missing
The hobbywing 60A / 3A Switching BEC has a governor mode. Hoping it works out well. One of the reasons i decided on that one. Plus it has an easy to use card to program it. The Castle stuff is just too costly for me in comparison right now.

BTW I was able to switch my broken dip switches on my RX with a needle point. The wowhobbies manual says my TX should have channel 2 and 4 reversed and all others normal. Is there a reason wow hobbies uses the aile reverse switch and rudder reverse switch on the RX and counter reverse it in the TX? I'm trying to learn about how this RX is setup. When i get my new servo I need to know how this stuff is supposed to be. Is it just preference how the switches are set or does it affect the swash mixing? Because right now with the aile & elev switches ON and the reverse on the TX normal (off or down position) the cyclic appears to move the 2 servos i have in the right direction. But moving the pitch stick in throttle hold mode the servos move opposite. One up one down. Yet still cyclic works normally. If i reverse the aileron channel in the TX they work normally in TH with the pitch stick but left right cyclic move the servo the oppisite direction. I should probably wait till i have the servo, but i'm trying to preemptively figure all this out and i don't really understand the 3 servo mixing on this helicopter yet.
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Old May 02, 2012, 03:06 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
The hobbywing 60A / 3A Switching BEC has a governor mode. Hoping it works out well. One of the reasons i decided on that one. Plus it has an easy to use card to program it. The Castle stuff is just too costly for me in comparison right now.

BTW I was able to switch my broken dip switches on my RX with a needle point. The wowhobbies manual says my TX should have channel 2 and 4 reversed and all others normal. Is there a reason wow hobbies uses the aile reverse switch and rudder reverse switch on the RX and counter reverse it in the TX? I'm trying to learn about how this RX is setup. When i get my new servo I need to know how this stuff is supposed to be. Is it just preference how the switches are set or does it affect the swash mixing? Because right now with the aile & elev switches ON and the reverse on the TX normal (off or down position) the cyclic appears to move the 2 servos i have in the right direction. But moving the pitch stick in throttle hold mode the servos move opposite. One up one down. Yet still cyclic works normally. If i reverse the aileron channel in the TX they work normally in TH with the pitch stick but left right cyclic move the servo the oppisite direction. I should probably wait till i have the servo, but i'm trying to preemptively figure all this out and i don't really understand the 3 servo mixing on this helicopter yet.
If your servos work normal in cyclic control but not in collective or pitch control, you go to swashmix inside tx & change those servo mix from positive to negative or vice versa. After u make correction, all servos should move in the same directions (up or down) under collective or pitch control. Of course, you may need to level swahplate too.
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Old May 02, 2012, 07:27 AM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
jhebbel's Avatar
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Got my wobble on spoolup almost figured out, at was my blade tracking, just needs a lil more adjustments. but my tail wag remains even after checking it mechanically for play/slop and adjusting swash and gyro settings. Only other thing i can think of is static discharge? anybody else experience similar wag due to un-grounded boom?


Thant last landing is kinda rough lol, now you know why i got the heavy duty Align landing struts! but to my defense the heli was looking into the sun and i dont have near the picture quality in my fatsharks ans seen on recording.
GOPR3704.MP4 (2 min 16 sec)
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Old May 02, 2012, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by wlee1017 View Post
If your servos work normal in cyclic control but not in collective or pitch control, you go to swashmix inside tx & change those servo mix from positive to negative or vice versa. After u make correction, all servos should move in the same directions (up or down) under collective or pitch control. Of course, you may need to level swahplate too.
Yeah, as usual i get way ahead of myself. I guess i need to just wait till i get the new servo today or tomorrow. I'm still concerned that my other 2 servos are 09-8s with 09-9 labels on them too. So if i ordered a 09-9 and the inside gears are different, i must have 09-8s right? If so, i probably have to wait and order 2 more matching servos then? Or will this match up be ok?
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Old May 02, 2012, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yeah, as usual i get way ahead of myself. I guess i need to just wait till i get the new servo today or tomorrow. I'm still concerned that my other 2 servos are 09-8s with 09-9 labels on them too. So if i ordered a 09-9 and the inside gears are different, i must have 09-8s right? If so, i probably have to wait and order 2 more matching servos then? Or will this match up be ok?
In general, I will replace all 3 cyclic servos at the same time (even 1 bad cyclic servo) as I was taught from day 1. The reason is that those old good ones may wear out too and the travel speed may be slower than brand new one in which may cause problem. Of course, most of people just replace the bad one. It's not uncommon that people just replace one of bad cyclic servos instead of whole set and still fly without problems.

Be make sure you use same brand and model cyclic servos, mix of diferent brand and model of cyclic servos is "NO, NO"
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Old May 02, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jhebbel View Post
Got my wobble on spoolup almost figured out, at was my blade tracking, just needs a lil more adjustments. but my tail wag remains even after checking it mechanically for play/slop and adjusting swash and gyro settings. Only other thing i can think of is static discharge? anybody else experience similar wag due to un-grounded boom?


Thant last landing is kinda rough lol, now you know why i got the heavy duty Align landing struts! but to my defense the heli was looking into the sun and i dont have near the picture quality in my fatsharks ans seen on recording.
http://youtu.be/Pth5SxhAk8c
Nice job J, must feel pretty strange doing forward flight coming at yourself with the goggles. Damn stock walkera tail servo sounds like a rattle snake, but it gets the job done!
PS, There could be a lot of subtle reasons for the slight wag, and it is annoying when it shows up.........check my washer mod for the slider arm bearing a few pages back, that will remove the slop in the arm.
The other thing is the 2702V like to be mounted firmly onto the carbon block, but not too firmly, the tail gyro chip sits right on the back of the RX and if vibes are transferred to it its just picking up what it senses as movement but whick could be a resonant frequency to cause the tail wag. My point is change the mounting tape to something a little softer.

Then theres the belt pulley wheel in the front of the boom, sometimes it wobbles and causes the belt to shake, spin up the heli clockwise rotation and shine a flashlight on it, if you see the wheel not turning true it could also be the cause. It makes the belt shake at speed.....

Sometimes one little part can cause it, and it can be frustrating to track down, luckily frame parts for the V450 are dirt cheep Im going through a little wag now with the DS520 because its super sensitive and has more resolution than the stock walkera 2610H, it picks up even the slightest signal from the 2702V......i could just tap on the RX and watch the tail servo jump a couple clicks. Wondering if the Futaba S9257 would be better..from the reviews i read it sounds like it is.
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Old May 02, 2012, 12:39 PM
"Watch this!.... Oh crap"
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yeah, as usual i get way ahead of myself. I guess i need to just wait till i get the new servo today or tomorrow. I'm still concerned that my other 2 servos are 09-8s with 09-9 labels on them too. So if i ordered a 09-9 and the inside gears are different, i must have 09-8s right? If so, i probably have to wait and order 2 more matching servos then? Or will this match up be ok?
09-8s are half plastic, the pic you showed is an all metal (even with the 1 plastic its still considered all metal). im sure its not an 09-8 but it could be a 09-9 different manufacturer or something, walkera subs a lot of stuff out so could be a different contractor.

ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure all swash servos are exactly identical, different responsiveness or timings can put you in the ditch...
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Old May 02, 2012, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by HeliFlyer711 View Post
Nice job J, must feel pretty strange doing forward flight coming at yourself with the goggles. Damn stock walkera tail servo sounds like a rattle snake, but it gets the job done!
PS, There could be a lot of subtle reasons for the slight wag, and it is annoying when it shows up.........check my washer mod for the slider arm bearing a few pages back, that will remove the slop in the arm.
The other thing is the 2702V like to be mounted firmly onto the carbon block, but not too firmly, the tail gyro chip sits right on the back of the RX and if vibes are transferred to it its just picking up what it senses as movement but whick could be a resonant frequency to cause the tail wag. My point is change the mounting tape to something a little softer.

Then theres the belt pulley wheel in the front of the boom, sometimes it wobbles and causes the belt to shake, spin up the heli clockwise rotation and shine a flashlight on it, if you see the wheel not turning true it could also be the cause. It makes the belt shake at speed.....

Sometimes one little part can cause it, and it can be frustrating to track down, luckily frame parts for the V450 are dirt cheep Im going through a little wag now with the DS520 because its super sensitive and has more resolution than the stock walkera 2610H, it picks up even the slightest signal from the 2702V......i could just tap on the RX and watch the tail servo jump a couple clicks. Wondering if the Futaba S9257 would be better..from the reviews i read it sounds like it is.
nose in doesn't bother be, hearing a lawnmower blade i cant see so close to my face bothers me ;-)

Ill check on the RX, but ive already place a washer in the same spot you did and i like that the tail is more solid now but thats not the cause of my wag, belt also seems ok, im leaning tward static in boom or my throttle curve is still a little too aggressive and tail cannot keep up, i also found that the 2801 DOES do acceleration mixing which i previously thought it didn't, so ill play with that, and try to get a more true heading hold through mixing and not rely on gyro so much...
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Old May 02, 2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jhebbel View Post
09-8s are half plastic, the pic you showed is an all metal (even with the 1 plastic its still considered all metal). im sure its not an 09-8 but it could be a 09-9 different manufacturer or something, walkera subs a lot of stuff out so could be a different contractor.

ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure all swash servos are exactly identical, different responsiveness or timings can put you in the ditch...
I think there is a 09-9 and a 09-9 version 2. I'm assuming I have the version 1 because the gears are arranged differently. there is a extra gear, that is plastic, in the pic on wow hobbies. The wow hobbies picture has a brass gear where my plastic one is and there is an additional plastic gear there. I guess when I get it, I can compare better.
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Old May 02, 2012, 11:32 PM
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Great FPV setup with the gopro Jhebbel. Please keep more FPV vidoes coming. Its rare for a V450 with a FPV setup.

Will be nice if you can tell us your setup for it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jhebbel View Post
nose in doesn't bother be, hearing a lawnmower blade i cant see so close to my face bothers me ;-)

Ill check on the RX, but ive already place a washer in the same spot you did and i like that the tail is more solid now but thats not the cause of my wag, belt also seems ok, im leaning tward static in boom or my throttle curve is still a little too aggressive and tail cannot keep up, i also found that the 2801 DOES do acceleration mixing which i previously thought it didn't, so ill play with that, and try to get a more true heading hold through mixing and not rely on gyro so much...
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