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Old Oct 08, 2014, 09:08 PM
RC Newbie with lots of ideas
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
316 Posts
Question
RG65 swing rig plans

Hi all!

I am looking for swing-rig sail plans for my RG65, for smaller B and C rigs. I already got the one from Frank Russel/Goth 65, but I'm not sure about them, so I'm looking for options... Any plan is welcome!

Thanks!
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Old Oct 08, 2014, 11:27 PM
Registered User
United States, FL, Indialantic
Joined Jul 2008
174 Posts
rg65 info

http://www.rg65usa.org/home.html
Eric rosenbaum has an article on the us Rg website
Mike

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Old Oct 09, 2014, 08:03 AM
RC Newbie with lots of ideas
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktm500mx View Post
http://www.rg65usa.org/home.html
Eric rosenbaum has an article on the us Rg website
Mike
Thanks Mike, he shows how to build them, but there are no plans there... I need measurements for different rig sizes...
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 08:43 AM
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huzway's Avatar
United States, MD, Silver Spring
Joined Feb 2009
89 Posts
I made the goth 65 B and C. did pretty good for me, till the cross broke on the C.
The Dallas R5 was blowing last year. got 7th, some of the best were there.
Craig

Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmstro View Post
Hi all!

I am looking for swing-rig sail plans for my RG65, for smaller B and C rigs. I already got the one from Frank Russel/Goth 65, but I'm not sure about them, so I'm looking for options... Any plan is welcome!

Thanks!
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 10:52 AM
RC Newbie with lots of ideas
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by huzway View Post
I made the goth 65 B and C. did pretty good for me, till the cross broke on the C.
The Dallas R5 was blowing last year. got 7th, some of the best were there.
Craig
Let's discuss....

I already built the A-rig from Frank Russel, with excellent results I must say. I was planning using his designs for B and C-rigs... but...

To mee, for higher winds what you need is less heel. This is done by lowering the CE, i.e. shortening the mast. But to keep same power, you actually need to increase sail area, by making the booms longer... but this again make the boat heel more... so you have do decrease sail area anyway.

Frank's B and C-rigs keep booms same length as A-rig, which for me is a too big decrease in sail area. Other folks around here use longer booms for their smaller rigs, with better results. That's why I was looking at alternatives...

As I am no expert, I do not want to create my own design and have to go to throught the complete development cycle...
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 02:07 PM
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Dick L.'s Avatar
Minnesota, USA
Joined Aug 2002
2,324 Posts
Go to RCSailing.net and look up Claudio's swing rig sail dimensions.

Sorry, can't get to the site for a link at the moment.
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 03:26 PM
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huzway's Avatar
United States, MD, Silver Spring
Joined Feb 2009
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Here are franks goth sails stacked A-B-and C.
I think he did a really good job of keeping the CE the same front to back and you can see how they get lower on each.
I just don't get to use the B and C much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tarmstro View Post
Let's discuss....

I already built the A-rig from Frank Russel, with excellent results I must say. I was planning using his designs for B and C-rigs... but...

To mee, for higher winds what you need is less heel. This is done by lowering the CE, i.e. shortening the mast. But to keep same power, you actually need to increase sail area, by making the booms longer... but this again make the boat heel more... so you have do decrease sail area anyway.

Frank's B and C-rigs keep booms same length as A-rig, which for me is a too big decrease in sail area. Other folks around here use longer booms for their smaller rigs, with better results. That's why I was looking at alternatives...

As I am no expert, I do not want to create my own design and have to go to throught the complete development cycle...
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 03:40 PM
RC Newbie with lots of ideas
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
316 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by huzway View Post
Here are franks goth sails stacked A-B-and C.
I think he did a really good job of keeping the CE the same front to back and you can see how they get lower on each.
I just don't get to use the B and C much.
I agree he did a good job. My A-rig is doing great! But if you add a little mode "cloth" at the clew, I think you would get more power for little heel... without affecting CE position... Am I crazy?
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 03:57 PM
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Auckland New Zealand
Joined Sep 2010
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These are the Goth sails with measurements, classic and swing rig. Both in A, B, C sizes.
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Old Oct 09, 2014, 05:12 PM
RC Newbie with lots of ideas
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
316 Posts
Ok, I am building a RG65 rig comparison chart here...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Fourth column shows what % of maximum allowed sail surface is each rig, so it gives a sense of "size". Note on column headings explain what is what.

Any additions welcome!
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Old Oct 14, 2014, 10:58 AM
RC Newbie with lots of ideas
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
316 Posts
Decision time. So, I took a practical approach to choosing what kind of smaller rigs I want. Goals:
  1. Have smaller rigs for use when wind is too strong for 2250 sqcm A-rig
  2. Minimize heel (force perpendicular to hull)
  3. Maximize power (force longitudinal to hull)
Yes, pretty obvious and contradicting goals... So I took a look at my current A-Rig and got to think: how do I make it smaller? I simplified the problem by looking at it as a simple 2 parameter/2 outputs problem. Parameters are mast height and foot length, outputs are heel and power forces.

My thinking is:
  • A-rig goal is to maximize power with little concern on heel. So it is as high as it can be, and with an even surface distribution. Hence, Frank Russel A-rig design looks almost perfect for this: just vertical wing, with a curve at the top.
  • Frank Russel designed smaller rigs by just shortening the mast, but keeping sail foot same length as the A-rig. Short mast + same foot = smaller sail area than A-rig. Radically smaller sail area!
  • Chris Jackson took another approach: he shortened the mast but kept same sail area. Short mast + long foot = same sail area than A-rig. Radically longer foot length!
  • Both approaches tackle the heel problem: in both cases CE is lower than before. But there are differences. Comparing same mast length, Frank's design has low power/low heel, Chris's has high power/high heel.

In my opinion these two designs are too extreme: one keeps foot length fixed; the other keeps sail area fixed. Somewhere in between there should be an optimum.

Then I took a look at what winners are using: Pedro Stier in Brazil, Andres Lioi here in Chile. Both are using rigs that look in between solutions. Their designs use a longer foot (but not too long), and shorten mast so that sail area is reduced, but not that much (around 13% from A to B and from B to C-rigs).

So I took these ideas and started building my C-rig, similar to what Andrés uses (I sail same places as he does )

Hopes this rationale makes sense and helps others.

Camber and building details? That's another story altogether! This was only about overall sail shape...
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Old Oct 14, 2014, 12:03 PM
Registered User
United States, FL, Indialantic
Joined Jul 2008
174 Posts
rig designs

I have a skinny from brazil and the b-rig is a lower aspect same sail area as the
A-rig. The c-rig is a lower aspect slightly smaller sail area rig.
will try to post pictures.
Mike

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Old Oct 14, 2014, 01:05 PM
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United States, FL, Indialantic
Joined Jul 2008
174 Posts
sail pics

pictures of my skinny rigs
mike

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Old Oct 14, 2014, 02:56 PM
RC Newbie with lots of ideas
Chile, Santiago Metropolitan Region, Stgo
Joined Dec 2012
316 Posts
Thanks a lot mike! Would you like to share some measurements? You should be able to take them from your certificate... (main foot, main height, jib foot, main area, jib area)
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