SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Thread Tools
Old Jul 31, 2015, 03:39 PM
tracknoob is offline
Find More Posts by tracknoob
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
South Florida
Joined Dec 2010
6,160 Posts
Discussion
UMX F-16 Modification Thread

They are in transit to us, so someone had to start a modification thread!

I can't wait to get mine in my hot little hands. Let the information flow!

tracknoob is offline Find More Posts by tracknoob
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jul 31, 2015, 03:52 PM
tracknoob is offline
Find More Posts by tracknoob
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
South Florida
Joined Dec 2010
6,160 Posts
I'm guessing the first thing someone will maybe do is change livery....

I see they are starting to load the spare parts into the system, so it would be interesting to see how much it would cost to buy just the foam, and save the original red/white/blue scheme parts. Currently, it looks like you'd have to purchase:
*Fuselage with Accessories: UMX F-16 [EFLU2858] $27.99
*Main Wing Set and Missile Rails: UMX F-16 (EFLU2859) $31.99
*Tail Set with Accessories: UMX F-16 (EFLU2860) $31.99


With those three, you are already up to about a hundred bucks... not sure how short that leaves you from a complete plane, or if more stripped down (foam only) parts are also going to eventually be loaded.

And if you want to hot rod your old Habu or Mig15, this ought to do the trick:
*BL180m Ducted Fan Motor, 13,500Kv, 100mm Wire (EFLM30180MDFC) $29.99
(versus the old 11,750Kv motor, that is $10 cheaper)

And the taileron-enabled AS3X receiver board looks a little pricey, too:
*Replacement DSM2/DSMX Receiver: UMX F-16 SPMA3176 $74.99
tracknoob is offline Find More Posts by tracknoob
Last edited by tracknoob; Jul 31, 2015 at 04:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 04:35 PM
LowlyElevated is online now
Find More Posts by LowlyElevated
Team PeasantCopter... kind of.
LowlyElevated's Avatar
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Sep 2012
2,248 Posts
yay! mod thread!
LowlyElevated is online now Find More Posts by LowlyElevated
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 04:52 PM
RocketRobin is offline
Find More Posts by RocketRobin
Fox 1
RocketRobin's Avatar
Canada, AB, Calgary
Joined Jan 2013
795 Posts
I think I'll wait to see what you burn out first on this one.

Cheers!
Rocket
RocketRobin is offline Find More Posts by RocketRobin
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 05:18 PM
tracknoob is offline
Find More Posts by tracknoob
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
South Florida
Joined Dec 2010
6,160 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketRobin View Post
I think I'll wait to see what you burn out first on this one.

Cheers!
Rocket
I already have the recommended Eflite slightly larger mah batteries in hand...

With the higher Kv motor, I am thinking the setup will be fine, but thinking along MOD lines... what if someone was to slip in the lower Kv motor into this chassis in order to be able to safely try 3S power, and then use the higher Kv motor taken out from the F-16 in their current Habu, on 2S?

I think that could possibly be a win-win changeover...two UMX EDF hotrods for the price of a new 3S battery.
tracknoob is offline Find More Posts by tracknoob
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 05:29 PM
tracknoob is offline
Find More Posts by tracknoob
Diverted by planks
tracknoob's Avatar
South Florida
Joined Dec 2010
6,160 Posts
One mod I'm thinking we shouldn't have to worry about is a system keeping the battery from falling out the bottom in-flight!

This time we get a real removable canopy and a battery tray!

I've seen some crazy (and clever) ideas on the Habu and Mig, and on mine, once the foam got a little compressed from the 3S packs, I had to resort to using a little strip of clear tape across the bottom to keep the stock 2S packs in place.

The one thing I do want to check is the amount and quality of hook and tape they use.

* Did they stay with the 'wrong' polarity and use fuzzy instead of sticky on the tray-side?
* Is the lack of Velcro in the new recommended battery package just a minor oversight, or maybe now they don't need Velcro to stay in place?
* Is the foam battery floor going to be a bit more substantial than the Beast and some other UMX where it is pretty flimsy?
tracknoob is offline Find More Posts by tracknoob
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 05:35 PM
lightspeeddud is offline
Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Up Up and Away!
lightspeeddud's Avatar
Joined May 2008
1,955 Posts
I already have two mods in mind

1. Ailerons install

2. VTOL thrust vectoring

cheers!
lightspeeddud is offline Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 06:56 PM
LowlyElevated is online now
Find More Posts by LowlyElevated
Team PeasantCopter... kind of.
LowlyElevated's Avatar
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Sep 2012
2,248 Posts
I have half a mind to open it up and add some heatsinks to the brick, and see how much throttle i can get out of 3s before it shuts itself down.
LowlyElevated is online now Find More Posts by LowlyElevated
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 07:06 PM
kalmon is offline
Find More Posts by kalmon
Parkzone junkie
kalmon's Avatar
United States, MI, Grand Traverse
Joined Oct 2008
3,925 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tracknoob View Post
I already have the recommended Eflite slightly larger mah batteries in hand...

With the higher Kv motor, I am thinking the setup will be fine, but thinking along MOD lines... what if someone was to slip in the lower Kv motor into this chassis in order to be able to safely try 3S power, and then use the higher Kv motor taken out from the F-16 in their current Habu, on 2S?

I think that could possibly be a win-win changeover...two UMX EDF hotrods for the price of a new 3S battery.
This is exactly what I might do! This should give the F-16 nearly 1:1 thrust and the habu is less draggy and will happily use that extra 10-15% boost staying on 2S with the faster motor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lightspeeddud View Post
I already have two mods in mind

1. Ailerons install

2. VTOL thrust vectoring

cheers!
1. why??? If you're going to install servos into the wing, slice the LE along the line and make LE flaps! These would add a TON of control in higher alpha and allow nice nose high landings just dial in a mix like 10% of elevator input on normal and then a base 50% when in a "landing" mode + some % of elevator input and a minus % based on throttle. This would allow them to automatically come up if you punch the throttle to go around on a botched landing.

edit:LE = Leading Edge aka the front of the wing.

2. probably WAY to heavy on a UM(x). plus VTOL means vertical Take Off and Landing. I'm assuming you mean 3d thrust vectoring. Even for that you'd need 2 servos + linkages + a moving hinged nozzle. At this scale even a few grams way back at the tail will lead to tail heavy real quick. I'm interested to see how you attempt it though.

-Brian
kalmon is offline Find More Posts by kalmon
Last edited by kalmon; Jul 31, 2015 at 07:07 PM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 07:12 PM
lightspeeddud is offline
Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Up Up and Away!
lightspeeddud's Avatar
Joined May 2008
1,955 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
This is exactly what I might do! This should give the F-16 nearly 1:1 thrust and the habu is less draggy and will happily use that extra 10-15% boost staying on 2S with the faster motor.



1. why??? If you're going to install servos into the wing, slice the LE along the line and make LE flaps! These would add a TON of control in higher alpha and allow nice nose high landings just dial in a mix like 10% of elevator input on normal and then a base 50% when in a "landing" mode + some % of elevator input and a minus % based on throttle. This would allow them to automatically come up if you punch the throttle to go around on a botched landing.

edit:LE = Leading Edge aka the front of the wing.

2. probably WAY to heavy on a UM(x). plus VTOL means vertical Take Off and Landing. I'm assuming you mean 3d thrust vectoring. Even for that you'd need 2 servos + linkages + a moving hinged nozzle. At this scale even a few grams way back at the tail will lead to tail heavy real quick. I'm interested to see how you attempt it though.

-Brian
You dont have to play dumb with me, my profession is actually working as a Aerospace Engineer on the F35B thurst vectoring system(google F135/RRLS, Im a project engineer on that). I know and I think most people know what your simple abbreviations mean.

Not only will I achieve thrust vectoring on the UMX F16 but I will also also ahieve full VTOL flights.

Cheers!
lightspeeddud is offline Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Last edited by lightspeeddud; Jul 31, 2015 at 07:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 07:22 PM
kalmon is offline
Find More Posts by kalmon
Parkzone junkie
kalmon's Avatar
United States, MI, Grand Traverse
Joined Oct 2008
3,925 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightspeeddud View Post
You dont have to play dumb with me, my profession is actually working as a Aerospace Engineer on the F35B thurst vectoring system. I know and I think most people know what your simple abbreviations mean.

Not only will I achieve thrust vectoring on the UMX F16 but I will also also ahieve full VTOL flights.

Cheers!
really VTOL? how do you plan on accomplishing that on a F-16? If you're an aerospace engineer you know it can't be done on an F-16! unless you plan on adding a heli to the top....

Explain how you will get the plane to go straight up from a standing start?

-Brian
kalmon is offline Find More Posts by kalmon
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 07:29 PM
lightspeeddud is offline
Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Up Up and Away!
lightspeeddud's Avatar
Joined May 2008
1,955 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
really VTOL? how do you plan on accomplishing that on a F-16? If you're an aerospace engineer you know it can't be done on an F-16! unless you plan on adding a heli to the top....

Explain how you will get the plane to go straight up from a standing start?

-Brian
You do understand that these are just "models", they nearly dont even have close to the flight characteristics of "real" jets.

Achieving the thrust vectoring will be extremely easy. There are people that done this on the UMX habu.

As for the VTOL flights, this comes a little more trickier since I dont have the UMX F16 in hand yet.....however I will stick another micro EDF motor in the front and this counterbalance the weight. I have a few tricks up my sleeve to achieve the proper gyroscope measurements and thrust calculations to get a level VTOL flight.

All will be seen with time, have faith.

Cheers!
lightspeeddud is offline Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 07:55 PM
kalmon is offline
Find More Posts by kalmon
Parkzone junkie
kalmon's Avatar
United States, MI, Grand Traverse
Joined Oct 2008
3,925 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightspeeddud View Post
You do understand that these are just "models", they nearly dont even have close to the flight characteristics of "real" jets.

Achieving the thrust vectoring will be extremely easy. There are people that done this on the UMX habu.

As for the VTOL flights, this comes a little more trickier since I dont have the UMX F16 in hand yet.....however I will stick another micro EDF motor in the front and this counterbalance the weight. I have a few tricks up my sleeve to achieve the proper gyroscope measurements and thrust calculations to get a level VTOL flight.

All will be seen with time, have faith.

Cheers!
Oh yes very different from real jets. I've been flying full scale for almost three decades now. The thing I miss is the tendency to get slung out (drastically increased AoA) in high G turns/loops. Plus energy management is a little lacking in a 2oz bird.

re:twin EDF,
Interesting. In an effort to help: the 11500kv motor and stock fan+shroud produce a max of 60g thrust on a full high quality pack, quickly falling to around 56g thrust for the majority of the flight falling to 49-50 towards the end. I think the stock f-16 weighs about 80g. Best of luck, post some pics.

I have see micro vectoring. I just wonder if it will be worth the weight tradeoff on such a small model. I know my habu and more importantly Mig-15 fly noticeably better when flown as light as possible.

-Brian
kalmon is offline Find More Posts by kalmon
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 07:59 PM
LowlyElevated is online now
Find More Posts by LowlyElevated
Team PeasantCopter... kind of.
LowlyElevated's Avatar
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Sep 2012
2,248 Posts
This will be interesting...

Getting a 1/1 thrust ratio out of these tiny models is a feat in itself, let alone moving that thrust to anywhere else other than its intended path while still maintaining more than 1/1 ratio.
I remember, back in the days of the UMX mig, there was a fellow on the mod thread for that platform who was obsessed on getting more than 1/1 thrust out of it. He tried all manor of motor, battery, and fan combinations and still could just barely get the 1/1, and nothing more. It will be interesting to see what motor you end up using in your build, because the stock one simply wont give you what you need performance wise.

And you are right, these are just models. They run on electric batteries and brushless motors. These models are wimpy compared to their full scale counterparts.
LowlyElevated is online now Find More Posts by LowlyElevated
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 31, 2015, 08:03 PM
lightspeeddud is offline
Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Up Up and Away!
lightspeeddud's Avatar
Joined May 2008
1,955 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalmon View Post
Oh yes very different from real jets. I've been flying full scale for almost three decades now. The thing I miss is the tendency to get slung out (drastically increased AoA) in high G turns/loops. Plus energy management is a little lacking in a 2oz bird.

re:twin EDF,
Interesting. In an effort to help: the 11500kv motor and stock fan+shroud produce a max of 60g thrust on a full high quality pack, quickly falling to around 56g thrust for the majority of the flight falling to 49-50 towards the end. I think the stock f-16 weighs about 80g. Best of luck, post some pics.

I have see micro vectoring. I just wonder if it will be worth the weight tradeoff on such a small model. I know my habu and more importantly Mig-15 fly noticeably better when flown as light as possible.

-Brian
I dont know if I will get "decent" flights when flown CTOL(conventional take off landing ) however I just want try it because its going to be really cool regardless. See this video below for what I want to achieve on a UMX!

F35 joint strike fighter rc model airplane vertical take of (0 min 59 sec)
lightspeeddud is offline Find More Posts by lightspeeddud
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Umx f-16 Audioguru Micro Ready-to-Fly 586 Today 01:56 PM
News New Release - E-Flite UMX F-16 Matt Gunn Micro EDF Jets and Power Systems 216 Today 01:35 PM
New Product E-Flite UMX™ F-16 BNF Basic ChuckTseeker Micro EDF Jets and Power Systems 359 Yesterday 03:04 PM
Question F-16 stabilizer modification: Airflow problems? RC_Bob Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 7 Oct 01, 2013 04:08 PM