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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:14 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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What memory should I get for this camera?`

Quote:
Originally Posted by wjbite View Post
Great job Frank.

Having stumbled on to this thread I may give these little guys another try.
I lost interest due to poor performance - the hacking was fun for a while but the after all the fun, the results were always unsatisfying.
The first question that came to my mind while trying to decide if I was going to fork out $40 was this:
What about the memory card?
I remember that some of the performance issues of old were due to the type of memory card. Does that problem still exist? If so what card should I order at the same time I order my new camera?
I did look at the FAQs and saw no mention if this issue.
I would guess anything above 4 GB would be overkill - but what about card class?
If I missed it - sorry

Thanks for you continued efforts,
Walt Bankes
Hello Walt,

I guess it's time I add some details on flash memory cards since questions come up occasionally and the instruction sheet that comes with the card is a bit confusing and even conflicting. Thanks for reminding me!

First, this camera does NOT have the dropped frame issue of the old 808 cameras. So the card speed is less of a problem than it was. I don't know what the minimum speed class is that will assure no dropped frames, simply because the speed class only guarantees a minimum SEQUENTIAL write speed, and the dropped frame issue is more related to the RANDOM write speed, which is MUCH slower as the graph shown on the chucklohr.com web site shows.

The instructions sheet that comes with the camera says to use at least a Class 4 card, and I think that is good advice to avoid problems. Some users have reported OK recording with a high quality Class 2 card (i.e. Sandisk). But in any event, I would avoid "generic" cards or little known brands. Personally, I go for a Class 6 card since the cost is difference is negligible. And I found the Transcend Class 6 card shows test results consistent with the top one or two results posted in the graph I referenced above. The best everyday price I have found on the web is at this site (about $10.60 delivered in the US in about 3 days), but other places (e.g. Amazon.com and newegg.com) sometimes have good deals also. There are other good cards, just none that I have used. But the camera instructions are a bit conflicting when it mentions "SDH4" cards. The camera takes a MICRO SDHC cards as you know, not a standard size SDHC card, so that is worth clarifying.

7/7/2011 <Edit> The Transcend Class 6 cards have shown sequential write speeds in excess of 10 mB/s, which meets Class 10 criteria. Transcend is now selling Class 10 cards for the same price as the prior Class 6 cards. They are most likely the same cards, just renamed, and some speed test results confirm this.

New flash memory should not need formatting, but if you do format them, you should use the SD Formatter utility. The PCs normal formatting with the FAT32 file system will usually work, sometime favorably, but there are documented cases where a card is formatted in a different camera and then does not work in the #11, even when reformatted with a PC. Formatting with the SD Formatter utility fixed the problem. <End Edit>

As for minimum flash memory size, the stock 250 mAH camera battery only lasts for about 45 min. max., and it does an automatic stop/save/continue function every 20 minutes (unless you install the continuous recordin firmware), with about 3-4 seconds of lost video in between. The 20 min. file sizes differ, since some cameras for unknown reasons have about a 10 MB/s bit rate with about 1.5GB file size, and others 7MB/s and 1.03GB file size (which is still plenty high enough for the video this camera can produce). So, with a 2GB card, you won't get all the video that the battery can normally provide on a single charge. But a 4GB card is big enough to record all that the SMALL #11 camera can record with a fully charged battery. The larger Jumbo #11 would utilize most of an 8GB card, though. The only need for a larger card would be the desire to store additional video on the card before it is copied to your computer to free up the space, such as recharging the battery and shooting more video, or using external power such as the included car charger that comes with it to record for longer periods of time.

In ALL cases, test your new flash memory card for full memory capacity verification using the h2testw.exe utility (should get no errors), and for read/write speed with the Crystal DiskMark utility (2MB/sec. is a very good random write speed for the 512K test, and 1MB/sec. is the low end of acceptability for good performance.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Feb 01, 2012 at 09:14 PM. Reason: added info and links to flash memory testing utilities
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:24 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
15,853 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Hello Walt,

I guess it's time I add some details on flash memory cards since questions come up occasionally and the instruction sheet that comes with the card is a bit confusing and even conflicting. Thanks for reminding me!

First, this camera does NOT have the dropped frame issue of the old 808 cameras. So the card speed is less of a problem than it was. I don't know what the minimum speed class is that will assure no dropped frames, simply because the speed class only guarantees a minimum SEQUENTIAL write speed, and the dropped frame issue is more related to the RANDOM write speed, which is MUCH slower as the graph shown on the chucklohr.com web site shows.

The instructions sheet that comes with the camera says to use at least a Class 4 card, and I think that is good advice to avoid problems. But I would avoid "generic" cards or little known brands. Personally, I go for a Class 6 card since the cost is difference is negligible. And I found the Transcend Class 6 card shows test results consistent with the top one or two results posted in the graph I referenced above. The best everyday price I have found on the web is at this site (about $10.60 delivered in the US in about 3 days), but other places (e.g. Amazon.com and newegg.com) sometimes have good deals also. There are other good cards, just none that I have used. But the camera instructions are a bit conflicting when it mentions "SDH4" cards. The camera takes a MICRO SDHC cards as you know, not a standard size SDHC card, so that is worth clarifying.

As for minimum flash memory size, the stock 250 mAH camera battery only lasts for about 45 min. max., and it does an automatic stop/save/continue function every 20 minutes, with about 3-4 seconds of lost video in between. The 20 min. file sizes differ, since some cameras for unknown reasons have about a 10 MB/s bit rate with about 1.5GB file size, and others 7MB/s and 1.03GB file size (which is still plenty high enough for the video this camera can produce). So, a 4GB card is plenty big enough to record all that the camera can record with a fully charged battery. The only need for a larger card would be the desire to store additional video on the card before it is copied to your computer to free up the space, such as recharging the battery and shooting more video, or using external power such as the included car charger that comes with it to record for longer periods of time.
Great points / tips Tom!

I opted for the 8 gb to simply allow more video to be taken during the day. The handy car charger solves the field charging problem.

Bill
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:40 PM
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finster's Avatar
Michigan
Joined Feb 2006
496 Posts
[QUOTE=lostheli;17259233]I start the recording process then plug in the charger. Not sure if that helps, just how I've been doing it.

I plugged charger in first then hit record...will give it a try...thanks
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 04:40 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
16,593 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinG0 View Post
So, after all - is there someone, who has no problem with the lens and focus and his/her camera works 100% fine? If not, this "out of focus problem" maybe is mass manufacturing defect? If there is someone, can he/she tell us the name of his/her seller and share some image and video samples with us.
Thanks in advance.
ShinG0, I think the large majority of the cameras work fine as received... but the majority of people using them do not post here telling us so (nor should they since the thread would be filled with "mine works OK" posts!)

There are a few that have documented poor focus in a portion of the display, and those cases are reported here (including mine!). I believe the cameras all come from the same manufacturing source, regardless of the vendors. And there will be a bad one in the bunch from time to time. All of the vendors have resolved these problems with the buyer according to the posts here.

I bought my camera from hxelepro360, Diana's store, and have had outstanding service and support from her, so can personally recommend this eBay store.

Others have reported similar service from the other three stores in the first group of stores I listed back in Post #2. There are four other stores I recently added when it was brought to my attention that they are also selling this camera, but so far there has not been any feed back here from buyers to confirm their service or support.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 05:17 PM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
ApexAero's Avatar
Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
4,254 Posts
Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
I tried renaming the .mov to .mp4 and no luck. I cannot get my sound recorder to work internally to make a .wav directly from a .mov . I need edit a clip for just a high speed pass to use the sound for a wavoscope doppler reading. I can make a foam jet go 170mph but I can't get this for the life of me.
Tom
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Last edited by ApexAero; Jan 30, 2011 at 05:38 PM.
Old Jan 30, 2011, 05:48 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
16,593 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
If you are not using Windows 7, it's tougher to help you with something that is a simple point/click/done approach. The new version of WMM (called Windows Live Movie Maker) that works with W7 is free and will load and edit the .mov files directly. That would be the simplest way, but you need to have the Windows 7 operating system on your computer to run it, and your computer might be too old to update it. It would help to know if you are running Windows XP, Vista, or W7.

ffdshow is what I used/needed to play/edit files on my older Vista/XP Windows operating systems. Once you install ffdshow it just sits in the background and supplies the codecs to reconstruct the compressed video in your camera files. The default settings should work. The .MOV format used by this camera causes incompatibility, but there are utilities that can convert the format to allow those older programs to load and edit the files. But that adds an intermediate complexity step, which I don't think you want. Since I no longer run those older operating systems on my PC, I'll leave it to others to give you guidance. What worked before does not work now with Windows 7, and vice versa. Maybe they can walk you through step by step via PM?

AviDemux is the closest thing to an editor that can import and edit your camera files on your existing computer (assuming you don't have a PC runnign Windows 7 operating system). You don't need ffdshow for that to work. But if this post is overly complex for you, then it might be better to see if you have someone local who can sit down with you and go through the set up steps first hand?

Unfortunately AviDemux does not output audio in .WAV file format, nor does WMM. You can save just audio, but then need another conversion program to re-encode it to .WAV file format! Sounnds like what you need for speed is a new smart phone that runs the Android operating system. You can download an app (application program) for it that will record your plane's speed, records the data for later use, but also SPEAKS to you as it flies past telling you the speed! No other computer needed!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 30, 2011 at 06:00 PM. Reason: added .WAV file info.
Old Jan 30, 2011, 06:17 PM
Registered User
Joespeeder's Avatar
Davison, MI
Joined Sep 2007
1,192 Posts
Hey Apexaero,

While it's not perfect solution this may be some help.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1085

I've been enjoying Freemake since I found it, it's so simple.

I haven't given up on Avidemux but I got tied of playing with it for now it's building season and I have other stuff to work on. Freemake will allow you to do a direct HD upload to YouTube or convert the file to an avi to work with in WMM.

Hope this helps.

Joe
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 06:17 PM
Registered User
ShinG0's Avatar
Sofia, Bulgaria
Joined Jan 2011
41 Posts
Thank you Tom. I was slightly disappointed for my bad luck with my camera, but now I feel more comfortable with knowing, that there is a good cameras and I'm gonna get help from my seller (eletoponline365).
Have a nice day!
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 06:47 PM
not running for the exercise
airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
235 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
I tried renaming the .mov to .mp4 and no luck. I cannot get my sound recorder to work internally to make a .wav directly from a .mov . I need edit a clip for just a high speed pass to use the sound for a wavoscope doppler reading. I can make a foam jet go 170mph but I can't get this for the life of me.
Tom
I can certainly recommend MPEG Streamclip for simple editing, however although it can export the audio, I don't think it will output to .WAV directly so you would have to use an intermediate program to do so.
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Last edited by airmob; Jan 30, 2011 at 07:17 PM. Reason: grammar
Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:07 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2010
6 Posts
zero length videos

In Tom Frank's post #3 he says that if you are recording and the camera runs out of battery, your file is lost. This is incorrect. When I was using my two 808 #3s if you are recording and the camera runs out of battery... the file isn't shown, but is HIDDEN. It can be recovered by using the error checking tool in windows. You still have to mess with a Hex editor to append the header onto the video part... but after you do it it works correctly. Make sure you turn on hidden files.

A tutorial of this can be found on Chuck Lohr's website (http://www.chucklohr.com/808/#RecoverZeroLengthAviFiles)

The reason I bring this up is because I am having the same zero length video file issue with my 808 #11 HD, but I am unable to find the header (atleast I gave up after line 70000).

Anyone have any fixes?
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Last edited by gohansayian; Jan 31, 2011 at 05:03 AM.
Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:11 PM
not running for the exercise
airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
235 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle-Eye View Post
Click on photo:

Video clip is 51 seconds

Hmmm, I too parked my plane head first into a muddy field today also filling up the lens with mud. What's the preferred cleaning method for these cams? A damp Q-tip?
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 07:18 PM
Registered User
Colorado Mountains
Joined Aug 2010
324 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexAero View Post
Thank you Tom and everyone, Let me rephrase the question I asked earlier.
Is there any way to get windows media player and windows movie maker to work with a .mov? Or, Are there any programs that will work that are as simple as the afore mentioned programs as I am that simple too.
You have to understand if I can't figure how to make something work on my computer it will not work for me so there has to be an alternative of some kind.
I downloaded the ffdshow and I couldn't bequin to tell you where to start, there are six selections and no help. The avidemux page has nothing to inform a moron like me what to pick. please help me
I tried renaming the .mov to .mp4 and no luck. I cannot get my sound recorder to work internally to make a .wav directly from a .mov . I need edit a clip for just a high speed pass to use the sound for a wavoscope doppler reading. I can make a foam jet go 170mph but I can't get this for the life of me.
Tom
ApexAero,
Here is one way. Download Pazera Free Mov to Avi. With that you can covert the mov to many formats. For your purposes, add your mov file. Check the box "Do not copy video stream" and select the audio format you want (mp3, wma etc). Click Convert. Import into WMM, and edit it to the section you want for wavescope. If wavescope requires wav then you will have to convert. I use the free Switch Sound File Converter. Import to wavescope and have fun. My personal opinion is that if you are capable of using wavescope, you will have no trouble with Mov to AVI program.

Extra info: Pazera Mov to AVI will convert the MOV to AVI, MPG, and others. It's easy to select your desired codec for audio or video. You can choose not to convert audio or video. You can choose bit rates and fps or choose auto. You can use 2 pass or not. You can also select rates or auto in audio. For those who are afraid to try the software to remove the date stamp, you can easily crop it off if you like with Pazera Mov to AVI. I also use Pazera's free Audio Extractor, and FLV to AVI.
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 09:20 PM
Fly Like A Thing Posessed!
NightRunner417's Avatar
USA, FL, Fort Myers
Joined Nov 2010
1,777 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmob View Post
Hmmm, I too parked my plane head first into a muddy field today also filling up the lens with mud. What's the preferred cleaning method for these cams? A damp Q-tip?
Use a lot of alcohol-wetted q-tips, and very, very gently swipe in a circle around the lens. Remember that mud has sand in it, which is basically natural glass, and will scratch both plastic and glass lenses with ease. I suggest only making one or two swipes per Q-tip, then disposing of it and getting a fresh one. Also, if you can find it, use very high percentage isopropyl, or even better, ethyl. Wal-Mart has the 90% isopropyl, which is what I use.

Be careful not to get too much alcohol on the lens at any one time! Alcohol can get down inside it and cause a fogging problem that could require you to completely disassemble the lens to clean each element, which needless to say can become a real problem on many levels. It IS in fact the best way to clean optics, but not knowing if you can get it apart and/or back together, and the risk of forgetting how the lens elements go back in... It's just best not to have to go there unless you're good at it and the lens is capable of disassembly in the first place.

Rick NR417
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Old Jan 30, 2011, 09:41 PM
Curiouser and curiouser
Kokopeli's Avatar
Rochester, NY, USA
Joined Oct 2005
2,061 Posts
Do what Rick says.
Do it while holding the camera above you.
Let gravity help you keep the liquid out of the layers of lens.

Walt
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Old Jan 31, 2011, 05:31 AM
not running for the exercise
airmob's Avatar
Joined Jan 2011
235 Posts
Rick, Walt, thanks for your advice, that's just what I need to know.

I have got some pure Isopropanol, so will give it a go.
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