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Old Nov 27, 2012, 06:47 PM
Occasional useful idiot...
Joined Nov 2009
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Data
Motocross bike tyre treads and inserts.

Well, here is the thread.

Something to put into the subscriptions and then come back to when new data comes to light.

Hopefully, this should shed light into different treads and inserts to use on the tracks, and see what we can improve on over what we get ''given'' from the factory. Now Chris N is no longer an active member, we will have to figure it out for ourselves!

Ok, here is the Bamber Gascoigne ''starter for ten''. (Or for the more anarchic... )

The M5 with standard tyre is good on hard pack surfaces. The tread does 'rip' from the carcass quite quickly but does the job. As the M5 does not come with a front brake, the rear does the work. The ''insert'' is like a 100year old Oak tree in that it definitely wont move! This supports the tyre very well, but has absolutely no give over slight bobbles in terrain. With the absence of side grip on the standard tyre, I have found it will slide into dusty/hard pack quite nicely.

More to follow...
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Old Nov 27, 2012, 07:03 PM
Occasional useful idiot...
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I'll add this.

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Originally Posted by chktm View Post
John is spot on with what he is saying JB.
Thankfully we don't have to worry about punctures like the enduro boys who run the moose tubes Dave was talking about.
This is my two cents about tyres and inserts.
In the real world there is all sorts of tyre tread options for different types of terrain. You also adjust your tyre pressures according to the differing types of terrain. For example speedway or trails tyres have a lot of contact area on the track and also to increase that run a lower pressure in the tyre. Typical tracks that speedway run on are slick and smooth. Trails are all types of terrain but they are searching for grip not stability at the speeds they go. As grip levels increase as such like on MX tracks, again depending on the surface a different tyre tread is used as well as different pressure in the tyre. Looser type tracks you use a more open pattern tyre and slightly higher pressure and hard packed you try to get more contact and more flex with a tyre that has lower profile knobs and more of them and using less pressure. We have to deal with all surfaces using the one tyre tread. How do you make that tyre grip better on slick surfaces? By making it conform and squirm more increasing the contact patch. Sure this is exactly the opposite to what you want on a grippy surface where the movement in the tyre only hinders the bikes stability. I think Chris had the right idea with the design of the rear wheel, tyre and insert. Maybe just the materials need upgrading. Hopefully like Dave says in time we may have more choices. Don't get me wrong, the std insert is great for general bashing. It's when it's pushed hard on a track that issues start to surface. The std tyre also works really well on a variety of surfaces. Basically if you have enough mechanical traction with the track you don't want the tyre to move around. However if you find you need more traction you can get the tyre to have more contact by softening it. Either rubber compound or insert or both. I've played around with foams but not the new style inserts yet. Hope that gives you some ideas JB. Will report on what I like best for my conditions. Haven't had a chance to test the new style inserts.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:10 AM
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JB to try and control the snap wheelie on grass you might want to try the larger tyre tread design if they still make them. Worth a try maybe compared to badlands. Your grass is probably very different to my grass though lol. They where called knuckles and I believe they were designed especially for a European track to win the worlds and last an hour final on abrasive surfaces. Not sure about wet grass though, may wheel spin too much.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:32 AM
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Sydney, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Bradbury View Post
Well, here is the thread.

Something to put into the subscriptions and then come back to when new data comes to light.

Hopefully, this should shed light into different treads and inserts to use on the tracks, and see what we can improve on over what we get ''given'' from the factory. Now Chris N is no longer an active member, we will have to figure it out for ourselves!

Ok, here is the Bamber Gascoigne ''starter for ten''. (Or for the more anarchic... )

The M5 with standard tyre is good on hard pack surfaces. The tread does 'rip' from the carcass quite quickly but does the job. As the M5 does not come with a front brake, the rear does the work. The ''insert'' is like a 100year old Oak tree in that it definitely wont move! This supports the tyre very well, but has absolutely no give over slight bobbles in terrain. With the absence of side grip on the standard tyre, I have found it will slide into dusty/hard pack quite nicely.

More to follow...
Lol, the young ones crack me up

Since you are talking about tyres & inserts i just thought i would add this the arx has no insert just a hard plastic rim & i think it hurts the performance on rough terrain & should be redesigned but it is like they are happy with the way it is & leave it, for anyone who has an arx & wants to run an insert i just fitted a rear sky rc bike tyre to the arx with a foam insert i made from a 1/8 truck insert it is virtually a perfect fit but leaves room for an insert & now the tyre can flex much like the vmx mm tyre i have not been able to test it yet as it has been raining for the last couple of days but it has to be better than no insert.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 03:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlejunkie View Post
Lol, the young ones crack me up

Since you are talking about tyres & inserts i just thought i would add this the arx has no insert just a hard plastic rim & i think it hurts the performance on rough terrain & should be redesigned but it is like they are happy with the way it is & leave it, for anyone who has an arx & wants to run an insert i just fitted a rear sky rc bike tyre to the arx with a foam insert i made from a 1/8 truck insert it is virtually a perfect fit but leaves room for an insert & now the tyre can flex much like the vmx mm tyre i have not been able to test it yet as it has been raining for the last couple of days but it has to be better than no insert.
That looks the goods TJ, you might want to make up an insert similar for the VMX. Is that the new style insert and do you think it will fit the bigger VMX rim? Send the rain up here, as you probably saw from my vids we need it bad, I'm sick of dust ha ha .
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Throttlejunkie View Post
it has to be better than no insert.
I'm very interested in your results, since the developments in the Onroad race bikes show that a hard tire (no insert) works better than a soft tire.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:09 AM
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Sydney, Australia
Joined Mar 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chktm View Post
That looks the goods TJ, you might want to make up an insert similar for the VMX. Is that the new style insert and do you think it will fit the bigger VMX rim? Send the rain up here, as you probably saw from my vids we need it bad, I'm sick of dust ha ha .
It feels good the tyre is not rock hard now it has some give i am keen to give it a run.
The insert is made of old style foam i have a couple of different ones from my monster trucks i have some inserts from a set of 7in hotbodies truckzilla tyres that are pretty much the same diameter as the vmx inserts but i have 3 new stock tyres & inserts for the vmx to use up first.
Ok mate the rain is on it's way ha ha it is going to be hot here for the next few days 41C on Sat
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gartenzwerg View Post
I'm very interested in your results, since the developments in the Onroad race bikes show that a hard tire (no insert) works better than a soft tire.
Hi Gartenzwerg, i am very interested to see how it works as well but after riding my mates mm450 on the dirt the soft tyres seem to work well they have better traction & help soak up the bumps the arx tends to hit the bumps hard with no inserts, i will let you know how they go i should be able to get out to test in the next couple of days.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlejunkie View Post
It feels good the tyre is not rock hard now it has some give i am keen to give it a run.
The insert is made of old style foam i have a couple of different ones from my monster trucks i have some inserts from a set of 7in hotbodies truckzilla tyres that are pretty much the same diameter as the vmx inserts but i have 3 new stock tyres & inserts for the vmx to use up first.
Ok mate the rain is on it's way ha ha it is going to be hot here for the next few days 41C on Sat
I'm sure it will work really well, especially on the dirt. I was wondering about monster trucks or 1/5 trucks or buggies inserts. Good to know they are about the right size. While waiting for my other foams to turn up I made up one out of a set of old truggy inserts. These wont need the front tyre as an outer as they are nice and thick. I'll see how this one goes.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chktm View Post
I'm sure it will work really well, especially on the dirt. I was wondering about monster trucks or 1/5 trucks or buggies inserts. Good to know they are about the right size. While waiting for my other foams to turn up I made up one out of a set of old truggy inserts. These wont need the front tyre as an outer as they are nice and thick. I'll see how this one goes.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/newat...anageattach&p=
I managed to stuff it into the tyre and get the inner ring in place. Now to wrestle it onto a rim . Looking forward to the rain but I think we are in for a hot week or two as well although I saw you guys and Melbourne are going to cop it whew.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chktm View Post
I'm sure it will work really well, especially on the dirt. I was wondering about monster trucks or 1/5 trucks or buggies inserts. Good to know they are about the right size. While waiting for my other foams to turn up I made up one out of a set of old truggy inserts. These wont need the front tyre as an outer as they are nice and thick. I'll see how this one goes.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/newat...anageattach&p=
Nice, i just had a look at a set of hpi 1/5 baja inserts i have in stock they are virtually the same diameter as the vmx insert so they would work without having to join them.

You will keep Atomik in business just in tyres you must have a box full ha ha.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Throttlejunkie View Post
Nice, i just had a look at a set of hpi 1/5 baja inserts i have in stock they are virtually the same diameter as the vmx insert so they would work without having to join them.

You will keep Atomik in business just in tyres you must have a box full ha ha.
Cool that's great to know TJ.
You'd be right on the mark there ha ha
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:31 AM
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 07:38 AM
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Good to hear Chris .
All stuffed and wrestled onto the rim, ready for testing.
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:04 PM
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ChrisH, you think this would be an option worth testing in your rear insert mod if I try to do it? http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...nsert-Set-Soft
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