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Old Jan 02, 2010, 11:59 PM
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Anyone tried gyros on cyclic "keeping the flybar on"

Hi everone, it seems that whenever I search for stabilzing, gyroed helicopter all I find is flybarless helis, I am interested to know how a helicopter of the size of a t rex 450 for instance, will fly with two gyros hooked up to the aileron and elevator? keeping the flybar and everything on.

BTW I am talking about 90 degree swashplate where each servo is doing its job,,

Rate or HH, although I think rate is better, is this fantasy?


Kalle
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 12:20 AM
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Try it and see how it works. I would be interested to know. I have thought of putting a flybarless system on a regular head for the same reason. Don't know if it would work or not.
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 12:31 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
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I could have sworn I saw a scale heli setup with two extra gyros in a post that was made tonight. How it was hooked in was not detailed and I may pose the question if I see it later or tomorrow as I am waiting for some batteries to charge before going to bed. It may have been in the Gas, Scale Helicopter forum, not necessarily here in the Electric area. I can see it working as long as they are set by the adjustment pots on the gyro case. Of course, with a 9+ channel transmitter and receiver, they could be set remotely like our normal tail gyros. Oh, I thought one was set horizontally and the other one was verticle.

Don
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 12:38 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
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Found it and the two gyros are set verticle compared to their normal mounting that I have seen on so many E-sky helicopter adverts.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1153664

That heli flies, so there must be an easy way to do it. It also would work out to be about the same cost as a good three axis gyro, IF you had to buy all three to start with and all were top end units, at that. I know there are gyros out there for less than 40 dollars.

Don

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Old Jan 03, 2010, 12:48 AM
crashs come easy patience dont
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yep it can be done.
the remote gain would be the only issue i could see. but then again i`m sure tieing all the gain wire`s together would work.
installation would be a issue, plug the cyclic servo`s into the gyro`s just like you do the tail servo.
i would think useing a `Y` adaptor for the pitch and ailerion servo`s would connect them to one gyro, then the elevator servo would be by itself.

it`s diffenetlly doable.
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 01:14 AM
Love my scale Whirlybirds
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Later, in that same thread, the owner and builder does explain that all three gyros are hooked into a stabilization unit, so it was not as simple on that helicopter as it seemed. However, the cost was not prohibitive. His ultimate solution was a Skookum 3 axis flybarless unit. This was on a scale 5 blade head, not on a regular flybar'd head. I too, hope that it can be done simply, maybe not as precise, but enough to be workable.

Don
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 03:17 AM
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Yeah I'm thinkin a flybarless unit would be the best way to go... only way to go on 3-servo heads. Could try this little one... it's not too pricey.
http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/prod...oducts_id=3882
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 05:10 AM
practice, practice, practice
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GyroBot 900

The GyroBot 900 3 axis gyro is designed for both flybarless head and flybar head. I installed the gyro in my ARK X-500 with flybar and set 'flybarwith / beginner.'

My X-500 is now so stable and so easy to hover or cruise.

Beginner mode testing vid:


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Old Jan 03, 2010, 06:25 AM
dze
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*cough* 622$ for the gyrobot it better work .. the sk360 system which is about like the gaui system jasmine mentioned puts it like this " When setting up mechanics originally designed for flybar heads, just removing the flybar will likely give too much blade pitch action" and it goes on to explain how to reduce servo travel or adapt the mixing arms for travel reduction arms so there is less slop ... and the whole idea is the less slop in the setup the higher gain the unit can run at .. which implies a dedicated flybarless head would be the most ideal ... whether or not it would work on a flbar head with no modification just bolting it on im sure it would to an extent but not near as efficient as it could work .... and i do think that using 2 or 3 seperate gyros wont be near as good as somthing like an sk360 which integrates ALL servo and swashplate as well as gyro function parameters and gives complete user control and adjustability of those functions right on the pc screen ...
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 06:53 AM
practice, practice, practice
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I installed a GyroBot900 to my Hurricane EP550 and replaced the head with GAUI flybarless head. My Hurri with flybar flew well with 1600RPM head speed before but some tail wobbling ocurred with flybarless head, I forced to increase the head speed to 1800RPM.

So, I think it is better to fly my X-500 with flybar and GyroBot 900 because she might be more stable and docile than flybarless X-500 (I am not an expert flyer and enjoy normal cruising flight).

You can easily get increased stability by replacing your tail gyro with GyroBot 900, no modification for the head is required.

Any other 3 or 2 axis gyros, for example, GyroBot 700, Mini V-Bar, SK360 or AC-3X are exclusively for flybarless helis, for expert flyers.

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Old Jan 03, 2010, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvlex View Post
The GyroBot 900 3 axis gyro is designed for both flybarless head and flybar head. I installed the gyro in my ARK X-500 with flybar and set 'flybarwith / beginner.'

My X-500 is now so stable and so easy to hover or cruise.

Beginner mode testing vid:


cvlex

that is very interesting, but the price is too high,

any as i understand it, most of these 3 axis stabilization gyro packages for helis are just 3 gyros and a special elctronic adapter to the various 120 and 140 CCPm helis. However a 90degree swashplate need only 3 ordinary separate gyros having the flybar on.

I am planing to buy a caliber 400xp .. a small heli with 90 swashplate and nice quality, and hook up 2 gyros for the elev. and aileron.

I really dont have an idea on quite what gyro-mood is best for "easy flying" HH or rate? I bet it is rate since you do want it to center whole the time.

having the "flybar on" means that everything the gyro commands will be always delayed, right?
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 10:18 AM
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Well, the SK360 says that it should not be used in addition to a flybar as the results could be unpredictable, it works great FBL, so why bother with a paddle stick. But reports indicate that something like a $$$ Helicommand probably will work better with a flybar as the FBL operation isnt the greatest. Someone mentioned that this might be due to the old-school gyros in the unit, bad enough that he went to a SK360 for the same application and it works great for him now.
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 10:28 AM
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is it just a bad idea hooking just simply 2 rate/ HH gyros to a 90 swashplate helicopter? will it even make it stable, I believe all these "stabilizing systems" are sensor based and differ from rate/hh gyros and could mean that the idea of using plain gyros is useless, problem is that I neither have gyros nor a working helicopter now to test
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Old Jan 03, 2010, 05:59 PM
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I know that from experience setting up a "franken-heli", a gyro set on its side will send a signal to a servo, to maintain the gyro to its current position (I put a tail gyro, inadvertently, on its side and it reacted to forward and rearward pitch changes, not tail swings). It will not help bring the heli back to a stable position if you give a command (stick movement) to go forward, then expect it to level the heli, once you have let go of the stick. It will maintain current attitude until you tell it to change. My limited understanding of most gyros, is that they are HH used as is, but can be used for Rate if hooked up to the appropriate control channel. I guess what most of these guys, trying to sell a stabilization kit, don't tell you, is that you must first be able to fly the helicopter and hover it with only using a tail gyro at the least. If you can obtain a stable hover, the gyros will keep it there, but they will not correct your mistakes. I suggest you think in terms of a beginner's heli and get a nice 450 sized heli to fly, once you have mastered the beginner's heli. Just my thoughts.

Don
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Old Jan 04, 2010, 05:18 AM
practice, practice, practice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky-walker View Post
having the "flybar on" means that everything the gyro commands will be always delayed, right?
I don't know excatly how the Beginner mode acts but it does the job quite well. My heli is so stable yet responsive, easy to hover AND easy to cruise. For example, while hovering, once you move your aileron stick to right, your heli moves right, then you move your aileron stick neutral, your heli stops and hovers there.

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