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Old Jun 27, 2014, 06:19 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
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Originally Posted by mattijs321 View Post
maidened mine yesterday...Was a bit worried because everybody at the start of the thread had that many bad experiences.

I bought a 65-130c 1800 4s nanotech pack that's quite heavy so with all the tip stall stories i feared the worst.
Nice - BUT definite overkill on the pack ... I fly with a Zippy Compact 35C 1600 4S and that is perfect balance ... and more than enough punch.
You can also run a 3S 2100 25C (about same weight as the 4S 1600) and it gives very good results ...

{quote]Coming in for the landing i kept the speed really high...both landings made a wing unclip even though they were rather gentle. No big deal...i guess i'll be able to learn to do it more gentle or experiment with the spoilerons.[/quote]

Take care with the wing clips .. what happens is they lose their 'hardness' and they click into place - but pull out easily after a few 'unclips during landing' .. I know !! I now have my wings glued in place ... because when the wing unclipped in flight - it snapped the CF spar - which you cannot pull out of wing !! It's glued in.

HK Edge 540 racer - Wing unclips in flight ! (2 min 40 sec)


What you can do - is wedge a thin piece of card or plastic forcing the clip to stay down in place.

Quote:
I used very low throws (5mm elevator eg) and for the second flight i went with 8mm because 5 mm in my opinion was way too low. (coming out of a loop and fearing you won't have enough elevator )
I have somewhere around 5mm on low and 8 - 10 on high rates ... But your lack of authority is obviously too heavy a battery and CoG too far forward.
If you go for the lesser pack as I have ... 5mm will give you good response .. with 8mm for when you really need it. Don't forget this is NO aerobatic machine that you can flick around like an Extra or CAP .. be careful of that forward taper wing !

Quote:
The CG is somewhere between 20mm and 30mm (i use my fingers, not the CG devices many fliers have)...maybe that's why i need more travel. It didn't need any trim and flew straight out of my hands with a gentle forward toss. Rolls very axial and inverted didn't need much pressure on the stick...i might start taking back the CG.

I have a problem though!
The spinner back plate isn't straight and has a 2-3mm wobble front to back. I decided to fly without spinner cone as that actually goes out centre at the tip A LOT because of the wobble...just the backplate and the prop alone are relatively vibration free.

What are good replacements for the spinner or the prop?
I actually do not use the spinner anymore ... I use an adaptor and cone nut. This allows me to use APC / TGS .. any make of prop that I have in the box !!

The spinner back plate has the shaft nut in it if I remember right. If that is not seated properly - then it will wobble .. I would remove the nut and check to see if any mould crap or flashing is in the slot .. Get that nut squared into that slot properly and job should be ok.
I've actually replaced my shaft with a plain shaft from the original threaded. Mine got bent in a crash ! I have considered fitting an alloy collet based spinner .. they look real nice - but slightly heavier of course.

Nigel
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Nice - BUT definite overkill on the pack ... I fly with a Zippy Compact 35C 1600 4S and that is perfect balance ... and more than enough punch.
You can also run a 3S 2100 25C (about same weight as the 4S 1600) and it gives very good results ...


Take care with the wing clips .. what happens is they lose their 'hardness' and they click into place - but pull out easily after a few 'unclips during landing' .. I know !! I now have my wings glued in place ... because when the wing unclipped in flight - it snapped the CF spar - which you cannot pull out of wing !! It's glued in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdgEhE4Nb2o

What you can do - is wedge a thin piece of card or plastic forcing the clip to stay down in place.



I have somewhere around 5mm on low and 8 - 10 on high rates ... But your lack of authority is obviously too heavy a battery and CoG too far forward.
If you go for the lesser pack as I have ... 5mm will give you good response .. with 8mm for when you really need it. Don't forget this is NO aerobatic machine that you can flick around like an Extra or CAP .. be careful of that forward taper wing !



I actually do not use the spinner anymore ... I use an adaptor and cone nut. This allows me to use APC / TGS .. any make of prop that I have in the box !!

The spinner back plate has the shaft nut in it if I remember right. If that is not seated properly - then it will wobble .. I would remove the nut and check to see if any mould crap or flashing is in the slot .. Get that nut squared into that slot properly and job should be ok.
I've actually replaced my shaft with a plain shaft from the original threaded. Mine got bent in a crash ! I have considered fitting an alloy collet based spinner .. they look real nice - but slightly heavier of course.

Nigel
There wasn't anything in the hex hole where the bolt should go...The threads on the motor shaft don't really go all the way to the back and maybe the bolt isnt as snug on the thread that before you bolt it to the extreme it still has wiggle room...when the thread gets progressively worse (less deep) it might make the bolt tilt...For the most part i think it's just the plastic on the spinner.

I actually thought about finding a hollow tube that fits the threaded shaft snugly so. Fit that after the nylon lock bolt that secures the assembly and cut it where it meets the inside of the cone of the spinner...If that hollow tube turns true and straight it might actually make the spinner run true...and when you tighten it's bolts which connect it to the backplate it might pull the backplate straight. I don't know...Ill find a way.
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 08:48 AM
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btw...you wouldn't have been able to tell from the flight characteristics that the cg was way forward...Inverted and upright flight seemed to behave normal...why bother with trying to get it more to the back...There is A LOT of elevator range unused still...so i don't really care. We'll see how and if she grows on me.

Yesterday wasn't a nice flight (only one battery...two landings) as it was getting dark and was very cloudy and i was flying on a really small field with houses around and stuff. Far from ideal...

Love to fly it some more...get a spinner fitted before her looks deteriorate from handling/crashing like foamies do.


Would it be worth adding carbon tow and epoxy around the four posts that hold the motorplate? Everybody complains about the brittle motormount so i thought about making that stronger preemptively.
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 09:43 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Originally Posted by mattijs321 View Post
There wasn't anything in the hex hole where the bolt should go................
That's the problem then ... the NUT is missing !! The backplate should have a nut in it and it is the thrust plate for the prop ... You wind on the backplate with it's nut till it sits just in front of cowl. Fit prop .. fit washer and nut .. tighten up ... fit spinner cone. Done.

Here is the assemble broken down to parts ... note the NUT is missing in the picture !! Typical !!



Without that NUT - the spinner will have no way to be secure properly ... in fact I'm surprised the prop was secure !

Nigel
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Old Jun 27, 2014, 09:47 PM
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I have not had a problem with my stock spinner. Some times you have to 'shift things around' (in what ways you can) to end up wit the best balance result. eg also to get the backplate running true.

Here is an interesting thought.....
I hate using the age old idea of "Set the CofG so the plan flies inverted as well as upright"....

A plane is designed to fly upright. So the wing incidence and tailplane incidence are set up to make the plane fly with a 'level' fuselage - for lowest drag - whilst also having a dead neutral elevator - again for lowest drag. This can only be done to all match off at ONE airspeed point - thus all set up for the most used speed = cruise speed.

If you move the CofG away from the 'proper' point then, for EG, nose heavy will need UP Elevator to balance out the 'weights' for it to fly along level again. Then when you go inverted, the UP becomes "Down" elevator... so the plane dives away from level.
Even if you had the plane at the designers CofG point, it would descend when inverted - because a plane will alter its effective wing/tailplane incidences, relative the the airflow, when inverted. So it is never going to work properly, to alter anything to try to make BOTH states work!
(there is actually a plane design that COULD fly upright and inverted 'perfectly', but it is no great use for planes that fly UPRIGHT 99% of their life!)

So doing that old idea of 'inverted' is actually detrimental to UPRIGHT! Though you might have reasons to ignore the non-optimal results, versus 'equalising' upright and inverted behaviours. An aerobatic aircraft can justify this. But any 'mainly upright flying' aircraft doesn't need to at all.

That way of choosing a CofG is not optimal in other areas too. Though you can actually fly fine enough over quite a range of CofG's, and might choose a certain result and 'feel' that you like.... even if it is not aerodynamically optimal.

I never use that 'inverted test' idea to set a plane to how I like it to fly!
I manually control elevator for the inverted periods. (even with aerobatic aircraft)
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Last edited by PeterVRC; Jun 27, 2014 at 09:53 PM.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
That's the problem then ... the NUT is missing !! The backplate should have a nut in it and it is the thrust plate for the prop ... You wind on the backplate with it's nut till it sits just in front of cowl. Fit prop .. fit washer and nut .. tighten up ... fit spinner cone. Done.

Here is the assemble broken down to parts ... note the NUT is missing in the picture !! Typical !!



Without that NUT - the spinner will have no way to be secure properly ... in fact I'm surprised the prop was secure !

Nigel
Well actually there was a nut. I meant to say that there wasn't anything that shouldn't have been there. But the nut was also the reason everything was crooked. I removed it now and just bolted the whole assembly minus the hex bolt flush with the bell of the motor which surprisingly resulted in a (by chance) very well balanced low vibration assembly. The gap between the spinner and the plane is also very small which i like. It doesn't rub so it couldn'thave been better. I thought about maybe using a little epoxy between the plate and the motor's bell to decrease the chance of slippage. I did one flight now with the spinner attached like that (like you see it mounted in the attached pictures) and everything went smooth.

Other problems though! There is some difference in axiality in both roll directions. I think there is too much side thrust built in. What do you guys think?

Bigger problem: The motor seems to never really spin very freely and it gets really hot. You can't feel any coil magnet cogging...it just tight and not really like it should be. I think it has either bad bearings or ok bearings with too much stress on them from compressing the bell and the circlip.

I have to check that...It still has A LOT more than 1:1 thrust but the motor really seems broken.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 07:35 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Quote:
I removed it now and just bolted the whole assembly minus the hex bolt flush with the bell of the motor which surprisingly resulted in a (by chance) very well balanced low vibration assembly
So what is providing the hard thrust plate function for the back of prop then ? The nut was not only to set the spinner back-plate position - but also as the hard point the prop and prop nut would tighten up to.

If you are now using the plastic hex boss of the spinner back-plate against motor front - then I think that's a bad idea .. the plastic will be having that pressure on just that thin wall of the hex nut ....

I would be inclined to find a better nut that is square and get it fitted properly .. or as I did - do away with the spinner and fit a cone adaptor ..



I did set it back a little further later when I made up my own motor mount ....

There's also some really nice Alloy spinners that use the tapered collet fitting .. I use on my Ultimate Biplane ... looks real cool !



Nigel
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
So what is providing the hard thrust plate function for the back of prop then ? The nut was not only to set the spinner back-plate position - but also as the hard point the prop and prop nut would tighten up to.

If you are now using the plastic hex boss of the spinner back-plate against motor front - then I think that's a bad idea .. the plastic will be having that pressure on just that thin wall of the hex nut ....

I would be inclined to find a better nut that is square and get it fitted properly .. or as I did - do away with the spinner and fit a cone adaptor ..



I did set it back a little further later when I made up my own motor mount ....

There's also some really nice Alloy spinners that use the tapered collet fitting .. I use on my Ultimate Biplane ... looks real cool !



Nigel
you're right saying it's not supposed to be that way...but the motor has bigger problems than that so i probably will try to solve those first. I haven't actually taken of the cowl so i have absolutely no idea why the motor spins so badly when turned by hand. I suspect either of the bearings isn't properly seated and therefore the bearings are compressed too hard. I can't imagine another reason for it not to run properly.
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Old Jun 30, 2014, 10:22 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Originally Posted by mattijs321 View Post
you're right saying it's not supposed to be that way...but the motor has bigger problems than that so i probably will try to solve those first. I haven't actually taken of the cowl so i have absolutely no idea why the motor spins so badly when turned by hand. I suspect either of the bearings isn't properly seated and therefore the bearings are compressed too hard. I can't imagine another reason for it not to run properly.
Couple of thoughts :

a) You are fitting a prop without that Hex nut in place - so I would imagine you are using the motor bell as the thrust face ... when you tighten the prop nut - this will PULL the bell back against the C clip at the rear if the grub screws are not tightened right up. The motor bell is not supposed to carry the prop nut thrust force.
The force is supposed to be against that Hex nut leaving a small gap to the motor bell.

b) The Racer motors - I have looked at 3 of them - all 3 - the motors cogged .. that is did not spin totally free like others .. they have a definite step in them as they turned - I believe to be due to the magnets they have and coil config.

It is worth taking of the cowl .. and checking how much the motor bell moves back and forth ... there should be no real movement of shaft and bell but also it should not be zero ... if zero - it indicates that possibly bell has been pushed back hard. This happens sometimes in crashes etc.
What you do then is take a 1.5mm Hex driver and slack the two grub screws in the small boss at front of bell ... slide the bell forward on the shaft - this is hard as the magnets oppose you. Then let it slowly ease back - DON'T LET IT SLAM back !! eased back will be to best position ... tighten grub screws and check rotation again.

It doesn't actually hurt to have a tiny tiny bit of movement of bell and shaft - but it's barely detectable movement ... this proves bearings are not being forced against.

If not the above - then possibly you have badly aligned magnets or coil / bent shaft or damaged bearings.

Oh - nearly forgot ... my racer wouldn't rev at all one time ... it just sounded like a handful of gravel in there ... I changed the ESC from the factory one and she was fine. It has happened a couple of times for few secs after that - but that was when LiPo was near finished ...

Nigel
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 03:37 PM
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Hey all,

Just ordered the sbach version of this plane as I have the 1400mm HK version but wanted something quick and easy to pop down the field with :-)

Got some Turnigy 3s 2200mah batteries already. Ok to run with? weighs in at 188g.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=26718
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Old Jul 23, 2014, 06:15 PM
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That will be flyable, but heading back to the bit excessive AUW it has on 4S.
Basically if you have a heavier plane you need to fly faster.... but it is named a "racer", hehe.

For a more 'true to full size' flight behaviour you need lighter batteries - like 3S 1600mAH. Though I cant remember what I thought about that with stock prop (3S) - I am pretty sure I went up to 8x6 for that. That is to get more Power from 3S use - bigger prop, more Load (Thrust) & Power. But I also think it did fly ok on 3S with the stock prop - just a bit weak. So I vaguely recall deciding it was that bit weak and thus upped the prop... and the 8x6 gave a great/perfect 3S total result. (8x6 APC)

My Edge540 is still in lots of pieces.....
Because it is a bit of a 'toy' that is more for just fun flying around - and I have quit a few planes for that - I have not made the time to repair it since its last BIG crash. The fuselage (nose) is not going to get back to normal this time! It can be repaired, but if I want it to look good it would need a new fuselage and cowl at least. Which I might do....
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 08:03 AM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Originally Posted by leon101 View Post
Hey all,

Just ordered the sbach version of this plane as I have the 1400mm HK version but wanted something quick and easy to pop down the field with :-)

Got some Turnigy 3s 2200mah batteries already. Ok to run with? weighs in at 188g.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=26718
I found the 4S 1600 pack perfect for the racer series ... and also fly 3S 2200 ... these two packs have similar weight ...

The 3S did not need change of prop - it flew magic .. in fact was more tractable.

When I want just a nice flight - I use 3S often ... when I want to tear around - the 4S goes in.

Nigel
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Old Jul 24, 2014, 02:09 PM
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Hi guys, thanks for both your great responses. Looks like i've got a nice little plane to just pop out in the evening and have some fun with when I cant be bothered to drag out the bigger planes
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Old Yesterday, 12:49 PM
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Despite what people have been saying in this thread I pulled the trigger on one of these and reading this thread I bought the worst one of the lot, the Edge 540. Boy I'm glad I did . I just flew the maiden this evening. There's a bit of a breeze blowing 10mpg south easterly. The model is unphased. I'm using an 1800 nanotech 4 cell pushed all the way forwards. The plane flys fantastic. It's not as fast as I anticipated it would be, but it's no slouch either and has a good turn of speed. Landings are awkward on our grass strip and the lading gear took a bit of a hammering when the spats get caught in the grass, a bit of brute force to straighten it does the trick here. Overall I'm happy, for a foamy it flys very accurately and slows well enough for the approach. I'm a happy bunny!
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