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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:05 AM
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Slovakia
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Guys, I made a short video about my Yaw problem. I left alone PID settings for pitch and roll as they seem to be quite good. But Yaw is a nightmare. The quad spins to the left a bit just by itself. Left rudder works a bit, right rudder almost no effect, maybe it stops slow left self spin.

I tried to increase and decrease Yaw_Stick value from 10 to 14, then to 4 and it did not make any noticeable difference. I did the same with Yaw P and D value, increase nor decrease does not make any difference. I might try extreme value, my defaults were 100 and 120, but I am not sure if I should enter 200+ or so.

I will try to change the props to 11x4.7 for test.

I am lost now and I am not sure if its my setup or something but considering roll and pitch work well I would not think it is motor/ESC/prop problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrlJn...ature=youtu.be
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:24 AM
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Spain.
Joined Jul 2009
303 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Barton View Post
The orientation is correct in the pictures (and is shown wrong in some of the manuals!)

The way to easily work it out is that the buzzer is always orientated to the back (tail motor for + config) of the copter

HTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaccies View Post
yes this is the right picture, both arrows showing front direction of the frame.
Thanks to bothˇˇˇˇˇˇ
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:25 AM
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United Kingdom
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alek3d - I have tried out QUAD+ with V1.22

My TxRoll&Pitch stick is nowhere near as strong as yours in your video, but my Yaw works fine - similar effectiveness as Roll&Pitch
I'm using Turnigy 9X + FrSky and using default software with default end-points (100%)

Your TxYaw works fine in GUI, so that is OK.
Others are using same firmware as yours, so that is not the problem.
I can only think it is a problem with the Gyro:Yaw
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:35 AM
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Its a 3 axis gyro, unless one axis is dead?
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:46 AM
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Slovakia
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Well, it nicely shows angles on all three axis in the PC.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop
Its a 3 axis gyro, unless one axis is dead?
I agree, very unusual for just 1 axis to have a problem, just I can't think of any other possibilities.

Maybe it got partially damaged when soldered ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alek3d
Well, it nicely shows angles on all three axis in the PC.
dunno ...
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 05:18 AM
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Slovakia
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Even if gyro is dead, when applying control by stick, shouldn't be gyro&acc omitted? It should do what I command, right? When stick released then it should lock the position using gyro, is it not like that?
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alek3d View Post
Even if gyro is dead, when applying control by stick, shouldn't be gyro&acc omitted? It should do what I command, right? When stick released then it should lock the position using gyro, is it not like that?
Sort of: the gyro will resist the stick movement to some extent, so this is why I considered it to maybe be the problem...

So maybe it is resisting far too much (?)
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 05:48 AM
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Slovakia
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I wrote email to GLB, I wonder if they respond. I might return the board, I would not like to change the FW, maybe it's faulty....
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 06:24 AM
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Boston
Joined Mar 2006
168 Posts
PID setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by snapper1234 View Post
PID Debug for v1.24 with english Button´s
Hi Snapper,

My firmware is 1.21 and working fine.

In order to use PID setting program you attached, should I upgrade the firmware to 1.24 ?

Thanks
Eaton
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 07:49 AM
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Slovakia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Barton View Post
I agree, very unusual for just 1 axis to have a problem, just I can't think of any other possibilities.
Maybe it got partially damaged when soldered ?
dunno ...
I will still try to play more with PID. In MultiWii roll and pitch PIDs are similar, but Yaw were different. I and D values were zero and then the response we ok, otherwise lazy. I will go to extremes and will set Yaw D value to 0 and see what happens. If only I know what ranges are for PID values, like in MWC 50 was max. D was in fact negative value etc. Here, I miss all that information.

My board actually tries to do something, it does left rudder a bit and right rudder too but very very weak. Maybe it just needs correct settings for my setup. I've noticed most of quads here are higher kv motors, mine are 980 kv, not particularly low but much less than those small quads with 1200 kv motors...

Anyone flying 1000 kv or less with this board?
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 07:58 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,624 Posts
Alek,
Mine is setup with my standard build of well balanced 750Kv motors, APC1047 props, RCTimer SimonK fast PWM ESCs and 55cm diameter and 1.2Kg AUW. The defaults are used for FF v1.22 and the yaw response is good. It holds heading nicely. I did add some rate in my Futaba 9c Tx to 120% on the yaw dual rate to make it faster. I used -40 expo on pitch and roll and 70% dual rates.

Did you take care to check you motor tilts? Are your motor/prop vibrations low at hover speeds and your shafts running true and straight?
Cheers,
Jim
Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index
Quote:
Originally Posted by alek3d View Post
I will still try to play more with PID. In MultiWii roll and pitch PIDs are similar, but Yaw were different. I and D values were zero and then the response we ok, otherwise lazy. I will go to extremes and will set Yaw D value to 0 and see what happens. If only I know what ranges are for PID values, like in MWC 50 was max. D was in fact negative value etc. Here, I miss all that information.

My board actually tries to do something, it does left rudder a bit and right rudder too but very very weak. Maybe it just needs correct settings for my setup. I've noticed most of quads here are higher kv motors, mine are 980 kv, not particularly low but much less than those small quads with 1200 kv motors...

Anyone flying 1000 kv or less with this board?
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Last edited by jesolins; Jan 13, 2012 at 08:10 AM.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 08:08 AM
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Slovakia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesolins View Post
Alek,
Mine is setup with my standard build of well balanced 750Kv motors, APC1047 props, RCTimer SimonK fast PWM ESCs and 55cm diameter and 1.2Kg AUW. The defaults are used for FF v1.22 and the yaw response is good. It holds heading nicely.

Did you take care to check you motor tilts? Are your motor/prop vibrations low at hover speeds and your shafts running true and straight?
Cheers,
Jim
Quadrocopter and Tricopter Mega Link Index
Well, the frame looks ok, I used square 10x10mm oak (so quite stiff) and motor mounts made from plywood, should be straight when screwed to square, no reason to be out of right angle. I check them from sides and they look ok. Motors are brand new SunnySky 2212 980 kv, I do not hear noticable vibrations. Props are crappy 10x6 from HK, but I balanced each with my magnetic balancer so should be quite ok.

If nothing works tomorrow I will take HK board from my tricopter, reflash it to quad + and try in this frame to make sure it's not my setup.
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Last edited by alek3d; Jan 13, 2012 at 08:40 AM.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 08:41 AM
Tri-Quad-Hexa-Octo-copters!!
United States, TX, San Antonio
Joined Feb 2007
14,624 Posts
Multicopter Mechanical Dynamic Neutral Stability setup 101

Alek,
Check your frame for neutral stability. Do this: Set your Tx trims to zero in yaw. Check that yaw trim is zero in the ZN setup. Use the PID setup application and set "1" in the yaw P. Do several one second barely hover "hops" and see if it always tries to yaw in one direction. If it does your motor tilt needs to be adjusted to negate this dynamic yaw and get to neutral stability. Sometimes it is only a hair of a change in tilt in the proper directions on the motor axis' that speed up to yaw in the weak yaw direction. It is a setup procedure that should be accomplished correctly and periodically checked especially after a "hard-landing" in order to get the best heading hold and yaw performance out of multicopters. Be sure to reset the yaw "P" value when you are finished. An indicator of bad mechanical dynamic neutral stability is weak yaw response in one direction and both motors on one axis being hotter than the other axis.

Also see Project Quads/Hexas/Octos TIP 7in the Quadrocopter and Tricopter Info Mega Link Index.
Cheers,
Jim

Quote:
Originally Posted by alek3d View Post
Well, the frame looks ok, I used square 10x10mm oak (so quite stiff) and motor mounts made from plywood, should be straight when screwed to square, no reason to be out of right angle. I check them from sides and they look ok. Motors are brand new SunnySky 2212 980 kv, I do not hear noticable vibrations. Props are crappy 10x6 from HK, but I balanced each with my magnetic balancer so should be quite ok.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 08:41 AM
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so jim, what are you doing with this board. you're posting a lot in here, more than in uavp thread.
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