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Old Oct 08, 2012, 08:15 PM
Michael
United States, ME, Wells
Joined May 2008
1,188 Posts
Working 2D Mode Flips Inverted...

I have one of my units installed in a Techone Swift and usually fly in 3D mode. I have a panic momentary switch set to force 2D mode regardless of whether the unit is OFF or in 3D mode. Gain set to about -19. Unit has worked flawlessly since first received months ago.

Yesterday, the wind picked up quite a bit so I thought I might investigate a 2D landing. While one or two mistakes high, I touched the "panic" switch to test 2D operation, prior to actually flipping the mode switch. For some reason, the bird immediately rolled inverted, holding wing-level; almost as if it had been placed upside down and the "reset level/trim" operation had been executed prior to the flight.

After a successful landing in 3D mode (ready to turn it off if another anomaly), I rebound the RCVR, reset level/trim, and back to normal behavior.

Anyone have anything similar happen? I also noticed that, after the level/trim set, while still on the workbench, placing the unit in 2D mode showed slight aileron correction; odd as it had not been moved.

Thanks, in advance.

Michael
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 08:41 PM
Aerial DP
United States, CA, Lakeside
Joined Apr 2010
912 Posts
how cool is that,,,,,, never seen it
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 02:46 PM
Guardian Stabilizer
Joined Feb 2012
65 Posts
Simon2504: What do you mean by "servo speed set to 150ms?" I see that it's a digital servo, but if you've set the Output Servo Pulse Frequency too high for the servo then it may cause damage.

Yes, that is strange that a stalled / shorted servo was able to damage the Guardian. It should take a lot of current to overload it to the point of smoking. Again, when you get a chance to do a post-mortem, we'd love to help you figure out what might have gone wrong.

Snowflake6515: Did the self-inverting behavior manifest after you had landed and switched back into 2D Mode? If this behavior shows up again, could you please file a ticket and upload your configuration .TXT file before resetting Level Flight and Trims? Remember that the Reset Level Flight and Trims gesture will be recognized within the first 15 seconds after power-on and pressing and releasing that 2D Mode button during that time it will be the equivalent of that gesture. You can tell that a Reset Level Flight and Trims has occurred when your servos twitch once.
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 05:27 PM
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BJM-Maxx's Avatar
Joined Sep 2007
643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake6515 View Post
I have one of my units installed in a Techone Swift and usually fly in 3D mode. I have a panic momentary switch set to force 2D mode regardless of whether the unit is OFF or in 3D mode. Gain set to about -19. Unit has worked flawlessly since first received months ago.

Yesterday, the wind picked up quite a bit so I thought I might investigate a 2D landing. While one or two mistakes high, I touched the "panic" switch to test 2D operation, prior to actually flipping the mode switch. For some reason, the bird immediately rolled inverted, holding wing-level; almost as if it had been placed upside down and the "reset level/trim" operation had been executed prior to the flight.

After a successful landing in 3D mode (ready to turn it off if another anomaly), I rebound the RCVR, reset level/trim, and back to normal behavior.

Anyone have anything similar happen? I also noticed that, after the level/trim set, while still on the workbench, placing the unit in 2D mode showed slight aileron correction; odd as it had not been moved.

Thanks, in advance.

Michael
I have seen several events like that.
-After a fresh boot, plane not moving, engage 2D and the rudder moves off center a little and twitches. Reboot again and it is fine, but sometimes repeats the issue.
- I set level flight attitude with the tail up slightly. Put the tail on the ground again and in 2D the elevator should go down (attempting to raise the tail) but it does not budge. Pick up the plane and the basic movements all make sense but moving the plane until all the surfaces are neutral again has the plane at an odd attitude.

I can never make sense of these things but it seems to fly fine. I tend not to use 2D at all and use 3D far more. However each time I check 2D, it seems to fly level-ish (quite good but but not perfectly consistent).
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:07 AM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,195 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galand View Post
I did that, but I was hoping to be able to do that in the field since it seems to be recommended to reset Guardian trims after doing radio trimming.
Not an ideal solution but there is a way to reset at the field without a computer. To set up a 2 pos switch for 2D/off or 3D/off you have to have the travel set in the tx to zero (neutral) in one direction and typically max travel in the direction of the desired mode. So, to do a reset with the tx just program the neutral direction back to max travel so you have 2D/3D. Do the reset. Then put the travel back to neutral.

Fortunately this doesn't need to be done often, especially after a plane is set up. This method is a bit awkward but a lot easier than lugging a laptop to the field and fishing around for the USB connection.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:37 AM
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Berkie's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Rosebud
Joined Feb 2007
2,252 Posts
[QUOTE=John.T;could you please file a ticket [/QUOTE]

But it takes FOREVER to get a reply from Eagletree!

Kev
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:25 AM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,650 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by choochoo22 View Post
Not an ideal solution but there is a way to reset at the field without a computer. To set up a 2 pos switch for 2D/off or 3D/off you have to have the travel set in the tx to zero (neutral) in one direction and typically max travel in the direction of the desired mode. So, to do a reset with the tx just program the neutral direction back to max travel so you have 2D/3D. Do the reset. Then put the travel back to neutral.

Fortunately this doesn't need to be done often, especially after a plane is set up. This method is a bit awkward but a lot easier than lugging a laptop to the field and fishing around for the USB connection.
If I understand his dilemma it is that he has no spare channels in his receiver to accept the MOD connector from the Guardian.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 12:55 PM
Learnin mo ever day
United States, NJ, Tinton Falls
Joined Jul 2007
139 Posts
Guardian is sooo cool -

I converted a SIG Kadet 40 to electric and in the process installed a Guardian. I wanted to use the trainer as a test bed. My setup gives enough thrust to allow hover - and the other day at the field I had it hovering for aobut 1 min "hands off" -- The other guys at the field could not believe their eyes. I never said anything about the Guardian. Just grinned)
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:20 PM
Rick
United States, CA, Santa Clara
Joined Mar 2011
2,195 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
If I understand his dilemma it is that he has no spare channels in his receiver to accept the MOD connector from the Guardian.
You're right. Last night I was catching up on a weeks worth of posts and missed that, sorry.

If it was me, I'd rather have the available channel for mode than gain. Once a working gain is established, it shouldn't need much tweaking.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:48 PM
Static Model Collector LOL
Katy, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,448 Posts
Ok I attempted launching my HEAVY FunJet in 2D mode
It did not go well, she rolled to the left ended up inverted, I could see the system was trying to bring her back to level, but it could not do so in time

Any tips on launching in 3D mode?

Again remember this is a heavy setup

Thanks,

FCA
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 03:53 PM
FPV junkie
m_beeson's Avatar
United States, UT
Joined Jan 2011
3,409 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAME747 View Post
Ok I attempted launching my HEAVY FunJet in 2D mode
It did not go well, she rolled to the left ended up inverted, I could see the system was trying to bring her back to level, but it could not do so in time

Any tips on launching in 3D mode?

Again remember this is a heavy setup

Thanks,

FCA
2d would be best. Go full throttle for launch, and if it is that heavy throw it hard.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:16 PM
Registered User
BJM-Maxx's Avatar
Joined Sep 2007
643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLAME747 View Post
Ok I attempted launching my HEAVY FunJet in 2D mode
It did not go well, she rolled to the left ended up inverted, I could see the system was trying to bring her back to level, but it could not do so in time

Any tips on launching in 3D mode?

Again remember this is a heavy setup

Thanks,

FCA
The Fun Jet has small elevon throws so until you pick up speed, the Guardian has no control authority to work with. Check that the unit is using all of your available throws and if not, increase the gain until it does. You will want the gain on a slider though because the launch speeds are so small compared to normal flight it will oscillate to death once you get moving which takes very little time.

2D mode will also try to flatten out any throw you make. and you want to gain speed going upward. I might try 3D mode with the gains up really high.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:57 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2009
303 Posts
3D Takeoffs

Have been flying my PZ foam T-28 almost entirely in 3D mode with great results, particularly if there is much wind. Recently I started turning on 3D for takeoffs & have noticed that as the plane starts to rotate on the ground, the nose often will abruptly dip down even past level unless I catch it before it starts. A few takeoffs have resulted in the nose gear almost hitting the ground before it starts its climbout.

Would a solution for this be to feed in a bit more up elevator even before it is at takeoff speed? I've been taking off with some nose down on the initial roll out to ensure nose wheel steering but trying to judge when to come off of it to let the plane rotate, which without the Guardian it pretty much does on its own when its ready to fly. Any ideas most welcome. Thanks,

Jed
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:06 PM
Registered User
BJM-Maxx's Avatar
Joined Sep 2007
643 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedorme View Post
Have been flying my PZ foam T-28 almost entirely in 3D mode with great results, particularly if there is much wind. Recently I started turning on 3D for takeoffs & have noticed that as the plane starts to rotate on the ground, the nose often will abruptly dip down even past level unless I catch it before it starts. A few takeoffs have resulted in the nose gear almost hitting the ground before it starts its climbout.

Would a solution for this be to feed in a bit more up elevator even before it is at takeoff speed? I've been taking off with some nose down on the initial roll out to ensure nose wheel steering but trying to judge when to come off of it to let the plane rotate, which without the Guardian it pretty much does on its own when its ready to fly. Any ideas most welcome. Thanks,

Jed
A sort of similar experience I had is with an edge 540. I take off from a grass field and with 3D on it is much harder to get it off the ground. I wound up turning it off to get off the ground.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:19 PM
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ricoalonso's Avatar
USA, KS, Derby
Joined Mar 2003
1,476 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedorme View Post
Have been flying my PZ foam T-28 almost entirely in 3D mode with great results, particularly if there is much wind. Recently I started turning on 3D for takeoffs & have noticed that as the plane starts to rotate on the ground, the nose often will abruptly dip down even past level unless I catch it before it starts. A few takeoffs have resulted in the nose gear almost hitting the ground before it starts its climbout.

Would a solution for this be to feed in a bit more up elevator even before it is at takeoff speed? I've been taking off with some nose down on the initial roll out to ensure nose wheel steering but trying to judge when to come off of it to let the plane rotate, which without the Guardian it pretty much does on its own when its ready to fly. Any ideas most welcome. Thanks,

Jed
When you say 3D, which Submode (Heading Hold or Direct Rate) are you using or, had you tried both with the same result?
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