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Old Jun 07, 2012, 01:27 AM
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Ryan summarized some of the key points pretty well in his previous post.

There are other reasons as well. By having a qualification process and forcing CD's to use the F3K rules, the community is forced to use these rules and become familiar with them. This is especially important since F3K is a new event and the rules are evolving quickly and it is important for the US F3K community to stay current. I know I am guilty as the next guy for not knowing the rules inside and out and I know that the qualification process using F3K rules has helped a lot of people understand the rules better and become more comfortable with them. It has also made people realize there are weaknesses in the rules that may need clarification. Understanding these weaknesses empowers the US team manager to ask for clarification at the World Championships before the event begins. Sometimes certain rule issues need many contests to show themselves. By having sanctioned F3K contests and forcing people to follow the rules, these issues are more likely to show themselves. In my experience, contests that are not sanctioned qualification or team selection contests, tend to be softer when it comes to enforcing rules. While this is okay for the occasional club contest, it works against us if all our contests are held to a lower standard. Once we are more engrained with the rules, they become second nature and are not nearly as tedious. For example, I'm sure most of us don't think twice about signing our score card anymore. That certainly was not the case just a few years ago!

The qualification process has certainly created the spark needed to create new contests in areas that had no contests before. As far as the comment that sanctioned qualification contests scare some people away goes, I think that is something that needs to be handled on an individual level. There are some people that are against contests in general. Does that mean that we shouldn't have contests? Of course not. My guess is that the people that have been scared away but are contest oriented, are those that have never been to a sanctioned qualification contest. If they went, they would see that it is just a contest like any other - just a little more formal. For what its worth, I remember when I first started going to contests in the late eighties, they were all sanctioned.

Regarding F3J, F3F, and F3B not having qualification contests, I believe that actually hurts these events. F3F is a bit of an exception in my opinion for a variety of reasons. One of them being that it can be difficult to plan for qualification events when a large percentage of events are cancelled due to lack of wind. F3B had qualifiers in the past. When the qualifiers were removed, there was a drop in the already low attendance at the TS. There was also a drop in the number of F3B contests in the US. Currently there is only one F3B contest a year in the entire country. I actually think that if we brought qualification back to F3B, there would be more interested generated and we would actually end up with more people involved with the F3B program. One of the biggest hurdles is being overcome ironically thanks to F3J! More and more people are getting F3B winches since F3J contests in the US have started to allow winches. Now that there are more F3B winches in the US than there probably ever have been, it is easier than ever for people to try F3B. They just need a reason, and qualifiers could be a good incentive for people to give it a try and see if they are interested. If even half a dozen guys gave F3B a try due to qualifiers and only one or two actually went to the TS, I would consider that a success. F3J has a similar problem. Even though we have around 40 guys at the F3J TS, there are not that many more people that are into F3J. Currently there are only 3 F3J contests a year in the US (F3J in the Desert, F3J in the Rockies, and the NATS). If we had an F3J qualification program I think we could at least double the number of F3J contests a year. I think that would also greatly increase the participation in F3J. There are a lot of TD pilots that are on the fence regarding F3J. If there were more contests for them to go to, they may be more willing to give it a try. Then the question is, why not start having a qualification process for F3J and F3B? The answer is, I would like to, but it requires clubs and motivated people to hold these contests. So far, I haven't gotten the support needed for F3B. We are working on getting more people involved in F3B in SoCal with some success, but it is a slow process. I haven't had the time to address the idea for F3J. For F3K, there is enough interest and energy to tap into for the qualification process to work. My hope is that by establishing the program early on, the qualification process will continue to provide motivation for people to hold quality F3K contests for years to come. If the community continues to grow as I hope, the qualification process will provide an effective means for keeping the TS participation at a reasonable level. (Right now, I think the bad economy is probably as effective as anything at keeping participation in check - I hope that this is not always the case and people have more vacation days and disposable income to participate in FAI events).

Hopefully these reasons and the reasons Ryan gave help explain the rational behind the qualification program.

Tom
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 06:59 AM
turn, turn, turn.
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Well, I think you guys your doing a great job and I appreciate it.
The best thing we can do as a community is to join the Team Select Program.... because it matters to the AMA.

And yes, even though the World's needed a warm up field, That doesn't mean that a 3 day contest, grueling as it is, isn't the best way to choose a team.
I don't feel a Team Select contest should be an exact duplicate of the Worlds.
I think a Team Select contest should be to pick the best four pilots in our Country, and to attract the juniors.

The current system accomplishes this.

Besides all that there are plenty of giant contests to go to where you can hang out and fly in what can best be described as mini World's.

I know all this from personal experience, and I'm typing this on my Droid from Polecat.... Guess what? ...Nick is flying too.
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Old Jun 08, 2012, 03:07 PM
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What is the last date for scores to be eligible for qualifier points for this year's team selection contest?

Also, I do not recall seeing, has the decision to use 2 years for qualifier points or skip the next year?

thanks

Frank
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly2High View Post
I would like to ask that the remaining contests in the ESL calendar be added to TS .
I just added these to the calendar in accordance to what Tom posted on the Yahoo group.

Ryan
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly2High View Post
What is the last date for scores to be eligible for qualifier points for this year's team selection contest?

Also, I do not recall seeing, has the decision to use 2 years for qualifier points or skip the next year?
June 30/July 1 weekend.

See Tom's recent post on the Yahoo group.

Ryan
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 01:20 AM
Mike M.
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Bummer for Blue Skies over New Mexico, July 14-15. Tom, is there a reason why you decided to start the next cycle on July 21st, skipping the first 3 weeks of the month? Why not just start it the day after the current cycle ends?
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Old Jun 10, 2012, 05:00 AM
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Based on the fact that the BSONM and the CRRC contests have already been announced I changed the start date to July 1st 2012.

My thinking was that to meet the 30 notification/sanction requirement people would need sufficient time to get that taken care of from the time I made the official announcement. That was the only reason. But since there are already contests announced and sanctioned it makes sense to move the date to July 1st. Note that if the contest hasn't already been announced and sanctioned, you can't actually hold a contest until July 10th provided you announce it today!

Tom
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 12:57 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
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Now I'm confused... which isn't too hard.
If Nick flies at the CRRC contest like we're planning, will he be eligible for the juniors at this TS cycle?
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 07:57 AM
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Kenny,

After July 1st, the Qualification contests will count for the next TS, not this one.

However, if there is a junior that wants to go to this TS and isn't qualified yet, I think the community would be willing to make an exception and allow the CRRC contest count toward this TS for that junior.

Let us know.

Thanks,
Tom
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Old Jun 11, 2012, 09:38 AM
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So the US team for 2015 will be selected from contests offering qualifier points from July 1, 2012 - June 30, 2014?

Is this correct?

Frank


OK, just saw the post verifying this. Will need further clarification as to the payment for entrance into the program.

thanks

Frank
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 11:46 AM
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Tom,
I think it would wonderful if contest directors of sanctioned hand launch events can distribute Team Selection Program applications, and collect the $20 fee.

I know it's a little more work for us running events, but I can't think of an easier and more successful way to promote participation. And it's not much more work, as already we have someone handling registration at every event.

"Are you in the team selection program? You can sign up now. It's just $20 to participate for the entire cycle, and if you place high enough at any sanctioned event during this cycle, you'll be able to fly at the Team Selection contest. Just fill this out and return it with the $20 app fee."

Aradhana Singh Khalsa
Blue Skies over New Mexico

(hoping to establish a precedent )
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 01:24 PM
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Aradhana,

I agree that this is a good approach. The only question I need to have addressed is whether or not the AMA can handle funds coming in for overlapping cycles.

Tom
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 06:41 AM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiesling View Post
Kenny,

After July 1st, the Qualification contests will count for the next TS, not this one.

However, if there is a junior that wants to go to this TS and isn't qualified yet, I think the community would be willing to make an exception and allow the CRRC contest count toward this TS for that junior.

Let us know.

Thanks,
Tom
Nick will attend CRRC.. And I plan on calling Colleen this week and enter him in the Team Select Program.

Nick knows the score, and is willing and eager to put in the time and effort to reach his potential.

Both of us want to help make sure that we have enough juniors for the TS contest.
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 09:39 AM
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What is the minimum age requirement for juniors to fly in F3K and is it legal for fathers & sons to time for each other?
Thanks
Tom R
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Old Jun 13, 2012, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOARenity View Post
What is the minimum age requirement for juniors to fly in F3K and is it legal for fathers & sons to time for each other?
Thanks
Tom R
I have good reason to believe there is no minimum age for FAI contesting. The maximum age for Juniors at the 2013 F3K worlds will be any person that is 18 or younger on 1/1/2014.

In many FAI events the helpers for Juniors must also be other Juniors. But in the soaring events adults can be helpers for Juniors.

Ryan
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