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Old Oct 07, 2012, 08:27 PM
Electric Glider Nut
timography's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Feb 2012
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Also - availability of European gliders may be fairly easy in the US; but here in Australia it's a totally different ball game. A TopModel Gracia for example (which is a very close competitor to the Mystique), costs $485USD from TopModelCZ directly, $495USD from Esprit Models and similar prices from other US retailers. Add an enormous freight charge on top of that - (iCare RC quoted me $400USD alone for freight!) and most companies, including Esprit will not ship them overseas at all. To buy a Gracia from a LHS in Australia will cost $1000USD, and they only get stock twice a year - if you are lucky...

Enter stage left; E-Flite introduces a great looking comparative model that they WILL make available world wide and without the outrageous freight charge on top, also spares will be readily available - why wouldn't we get excited?!

There are other aero modellers outside the continental United States after all... just sayin...

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Old Oct 07, 2012, 08:44 PM
Joined Jan 2007
184 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_edge540 View Post
They are very flexible. Thanks for the tip!
Jeff, most out runner motors have the three stator wires exhaust at the front when front mounted, not a whole lot of choices out there unless you want to run an in-runner with gearbox. I have built 3 so far and havenít had any issues with wire rub although I agree it is pretty tight in the nose. Also when reversing the drive position on the motor make sure you loosen both set screws before repositioning the shaft, it's easy to miss that step as I did the first time I front mounted a motor :-).
As for why we did this, our goal was to create a next step moderate performance sailplane that was affordable. Its already clear to me that many experienced sailplane pilots will enjoy the Mystique, however our primary intended audience is the intermediate pilot that is looking forward to a little more performance and may even explore some competition work.
As my good friends from Esprit models so kindly pointed out, we are partnering with the industry by looking for ways to bring fun to the masses, in this case the soaring community. Its our hope that the Mystique brings a higher commitment level to the soaring enthusiast.
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 09:10 PM
Electric Glider Nut
timography's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Feb 2012
357 Posts
A fine alternative to the Power 25 is a 4.6/840 outrunner from MVVS - these have the connectors for the wires to the speed controller exiting the back casing - they of all intents and purposes look like an inrunner, but are in fact an outrunner...



PS - yes I know the picture depicts a different model MVVS outrunner, but they all share the same features...
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Old Oct 07, 2012, 10:10 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
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Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Originally Posted by Esprit Model View Post
We and our business partners were wondering same thing. This is probably the best explanation. It all comes down to marketing and customer service. We are only glad that big company brings more people to the hobby. In the hobby industry we are not real competitors more like partners. We do not have such a resources, as HH.

Zb/Esprit Model
I have done business with Esprit and have found their quality, service and prices to be terrific. My comments concerning Horizon and Eflight reflect the great job that they do at getting high quality tangible products into local hobby shops in a sector of the hobby which where the pickings from other vendors are pretty scarce. Other than the Radian (which I ought to purchase by the six-pack) I have gotten to the point where most of the stuff I use is too specialized to find in any hobby shop. (Reflected by my most recent Esprit order).

Actually, no recent model makes me more unhappy than my Horizon Radian. Every time I fly it it reminds me of of how much fun I can have per dollar spent compared to my top end molded planes. It is encouraging to see vendors offer planes which have really high fun to cost ratios -- and which are accessible to newcomers.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 10:36 AM
Proud member of LISF and ESL
LI, New York, USA
Joined Mar 2003
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Basically Horizon takes their huge franchize in the electric airplane and heli market and slowly and carefully expands it so that the e-pilots will follow. First the Radian, a raging success among electric pilots and glider pilots. Then the Pro. Again I feel this is a great success with the e-pilots, but maybe not so much with the glider guiders.

Multiplex tried to go larger in foam with the Cularis. Looks like it has done OK with the e-pilots and the FPV folks but you don't see much on that glider with the sailplane guys.

So, if you are going past 2M you need to leave foam and go built-up for a good flying glider at a low price. So Horizon has edged out again with the Mystique. Set-up as an e-glider, but able to go pure as well. Now we will see if this is going to be another Radian, Radian Pro or a Cularis in terms of market take-up.

At the price offered I suspect that if the early reports are postitive you will see good take-up from the committed Horizon customers, the Radian Pro pilots and the Easy Glider pilots. Not only is the price attractive but parts are readily available for the market that would rather replace than repair.

And, you gotta hand it to the writers of the Horizon Ads/product descriptions.

Overview
The E-fliteģ Mystique™ 2.9m ARF aircraft is an electric sailplane inspired by F5J-class competition and similar Limited Motor Run events popular around the globe. Like most sailplanes focused on performance, the Mystique 2.9m sailplane delivers an outstanding RC soaring experience, even if all you're looking for is a glider to enjoy on a lazy afternoon. Its impressive wing uses the versatile Selig SD3021 airfoil that's proven to be excellent in model applications with lightweight, open-bay construction by offering good low speed characteristics, as well as the ability to move quickly from thermal to thermal. The contour of the molded fiberglass fuselage is sleek yet provides ample room for its pushrods to run internally and still have room for a powerful Li-Po motor battery.


They say it is contest inspired, name an airfoil (like the expensive gliders do) and so on. Sounds exciting. And for a Radian pilot this is a huge step up.. This glider will be over $700 in electric form based on the recommended components. That is a huge investment. But it is from e-flite, a name they know and trust, and they buy it from Horizon who provides excellent support.

After reading that, I want one ... and I really have no reason to buy one.

This could be huge ... or not!
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:57 AM
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United States, AZ, Oracle
Joined Jun 2007
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Quote:
We and our business partners were wondering same thing. This is probably the best explanation. It all comes down to marketing and customer service. We are only glad that big company brings more people to the hobby. In the hobby industry we are not real competitors more like partners. We do not have such a resources, as HH.

Zb/Esprit Model

I believe part of the appeal of Eflite's offering is that it is more approachable by relatively inexperienced builders like myself. I would love to have one of Espirit's Top Model sailplanes. They are probably superior in appearance, quality and flight performance but I am intimidated by the build. I am the type of person that needs specific detailed instructions with lots of photos. The pictogram instructions of the Top Model offerings are beyond my comfort zone. Maybe someday I will have the courage to build one of these beautiful European sailplanes!
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DLG fan View Post
Quote:
snip...

Zb/Esprit Model

I believe part of the appeal of Eflite's offering is that it is more approachable by relatively inexperienced builders like myself. I would love to have one of Espirit's Top Model sailplanes. They are probably superior in appearance, quality and flight performance but I am intimidated by the build. I am the type of person that needs specific detailed instructions with lots of photos. The pictogram instructions of the Top Model offerings are beyond my comfort zone. Maybe someday I will have the courage to build one of these beautiful European sailplanes!
I think you are right.

Espirt is known for top quality products and top level service. I often recommend their gliders and would not hesitate to buy from them. They have been nice enough to join this discussion so let's give them their due. You could not go wrong buying from Esprit.

However Esprit and other sailplane providers have catered to the experienced sailplane market. If we look at the instructions for the Albatros Classic we see 12 pages of pictoral information. For somone like me, this is extensive documentation. I could finish this glider with little trouble.

However for the guy who has been buying BnF Radians or Receiver Ready Radian Pros, those 12 pages of photos could be very intimidating. What they need to do to get it into the air could be a mystery.

Now look at the Mystique. The manual is over 50 pages of detailed photos with extensive descriptions of every step. Reading through you could feel very confident that you could do this. They even have detailed discussions of how to set the CG, preflight checklist, trim flights, thermals, how to catch thermals, how to adjust performance in the air and more.

The Mystique manual is practically a built and how to fly guide. That is because e-flite/Horizon know their market and their customer an understand their needs. They cater to them and hand hold them through ever step of the process. And people buy again and again.

Many people do searches on RCG and other forums to see if there are discussions on a given sailplane. They read the reviews and will be put off by a lack of threads. Using the same example of the Esprit Albatross, this Parkzone Radian Pro owner posted a request for help in the electric sailplanes forum in july and no one responded. He is by himself. No one has offered to help until I responded today.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...esprit+albatro

Now, in either case there will be questions. For the Horizon Mystique there is already one very active thread. So help will be available. The buyer will not be alone. And there will probably be extensive threads in the parkflyer sections as that is where e-flites customers live.

These are key factors that go into customer purchase decisions. They go way beyond the glider itself.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 03:39 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Meadow Vista
Joined May 2010
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Just received my Mystique today (10/8/12) at 11:30 A.M. Unpacked and now reading the manual. This a great value for the money! Very nice construction. Hope the prop arrives soon.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 04:00 PM
Mis-guided heli guy
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Austin, TX USA
Joined Mar 2007
1,470 Posts
I just tested the current on the bench and got 70 amps with the stock prop! I thought that was pretty nuts considering the motor is only rated for 51 amps and a 60 amp ESC is recommended. Then I realized there are two versions of the 'Power 25' and of course I got the wrong one. The 870kv is the right one, not the 1250kv. Doh!
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 06:08 PM
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Boulder, CO USA
Joined Jul 2010
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Parts are also very important! For instance, the section of the wings of Mystique are listed on the parts section of HH. Where can I obtain the section of the wings if I damage the wings of Albatros? Does Esprit also sell the wing sections?
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 07:23 PM
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_edge540 View Post
I just tested the current on the bench and got 70 amps with the stock prop! I thought that was pretty nuts considering the motor is only rated for 51 amps and a 60 amp ESC is recommended. Then I realized there are two versions of the 'Power 25' and of course I got the wrong one. The 870kv is the right one, not the 1250kv. Doh!
Jeff, I have tested the 1250kv power 25 (made the same mistake you did) and it's ok with some limitations. As you suggested it is closer to the rated speed controller however if youíre just going to use the motor for launching with limited bursts, IE 20-30second bursts at a time, it will be ok on the 60amp as long as it's not continuous running. You will get less overall run time compared to the 870kv though. Climb rate is slightly improved over the 870 however both are pretty healthy.
On the 870KV setup which most of the testing was done, I averaged between 8-10 30second launches. Typical launch height on the 870 at sea level for a 30 second run was between 800-900'.
Pete
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 07:47 PM
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Hi, Jeff_edge540.

I would think that you could go with a slightly smaller prop and get virtually the same performance as the lower kv motor without burning out your motor or ESC.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by timography View Post
Esprit will not ship them overseas at all. To buy a Gracia from a LHS in Australia will cost $1000USD, and they only get stock twice a year - if you are lucky...

Hi,
We ship overseas all the time, problem might be the fuselage length. That's the reason we are developing new generation of the models. Check the Albatroses, 3m version ships all around the world.

Zb/Esprit Model
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by xiaoyu80305 View Post
Parts are also very important! For instance, the section of the wings of Mystique are listed on the parts section of HH. Where can I obtain the section of the wings if I damage the wings of Albatros? Does Esprit also sell the wing sections?
We supply spare parts all the time, if we have more than 1 or 2 models in stock we pull parts from stock models and add to our next order from manufacturer. Itís easy to keep parts for 1 model, try to have 70-90 different types in 2 or 3 colors. Thatís comes down to over 1000 different parts in stock. Thatís just not possible.

Zb/Esprit Model
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:15 PM
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Boulder, CO USA
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Originally Posted by Esprit Model View Post
We supply spare parts all the time, if we have more than 1 or 2 models in stock we pull parts from stock models and add to our next order from manufacturer. It’s easy to keep parts for 1 model, try to have 70-90 different types in 2 or 3 colors. That’s comes down to over 1000 different parts in stock. That’s just not possible.

Zb/Esprit Model
It's very good to know I could buy parts! Where can I find the price for the left or right wing of the Albatros (2.4S/E)? On your site, I could only see "Calypso" and "Pulser" replacement parts available. Where can I find others?
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