SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 02, 2013, 03:31 AM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Build Log
Flying Illusion BAE Hawk T-45 70mm EDF Jet - landing it like a pro...

Hello guys, I am proud to present to you the biggest member of my T-45 EDF Jet collection - the Flying Illusion BAE Hawk T-45 70mm EDF Jet. I will be testing a lot of impellers and motor rewinds on it, so stay tuned if you are interested.

More information on the build, pics and details about the plane can be found on my blog: ArxangelRC.blogspot.com

This plane looks huge in comparison to the smaller T-45s, but that is a good thing because, due to its size, it is the best flier - flies very smooth even at low throttle and the huge wings provide more than enough lift to keep it in the air without much hassle. Landing is super smooth, just like the 64mm version.

It is interesting, that during landing, even at low speed, the control surfaces have quite a lot of authority and this plane can glide for so long, its almost unreal. At first, I was thinking of using the landing gear, but since the plane turned out heavier than the specs claimed, I decided not to install the landing gear and save a couple grams. Currently it does not have enough thrust to give me the confidence to throw it in the air myself, but luckily there are plenty of guys at the flying field that happily assist me with launching the plane by throwing it in the air.

Out of all T-45s that I own, this one came together the easiest and quickest simply because it is thought out VERY well and did not need heavy modifications to get it to fly. In comparison, the 64mm version was a nightmare to put together properly.

The model comes only as a KIT version, so I had to order the electronics separately. On this one I put two servos on the ailerons as well - I believe this is the best option for ailerons - and used a strong Metal gear servo for the elevator. The ESC is Turnigy dlux 55amp, the motor is the 2800Kv one from HK (all parts are detailed and linked on my blog), but I did not use the stock impeller since the adapter it came with was bent and could not be used. To my surprise, the model turned out VERY quiet and I believe this is partly because of the motor and impeller - they came perfectly balanced!!! At first I flew it on a 4S 1600mAh li-po and I managed to get almost 10 mins of flight out of it. AUW is around 920 grams.

Here are some pics and the maiden flight video:























Flying Illusion BAE Hawk T-45 70mm EDF maiden flight (2 min 27 sec)
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Last edited by Arxangel; Jul 07, 2013 at 02:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 12, 2013, 04:02 PM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Last week I did some mods to the model. I added a rudder, swapped the ESC and got new batteries specifically for this model.

The result was a 30 grams lighter model with a larger battery, a better CG and a working rudder.

Here are some pics of the mods:







Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:07 PM
JOHN 3:16
Sammy70's Avatar
Central Ohio
Joined Feb 2008
6,803 Posts
Looks great.

I assembled one of these for my uncle and he loves it.

I used what I had laying around--a 64mm fan with a Don's Wicked 4000+ motor running on 2200-2600mah 4s lipos.

Very light, takes off in 30-40', tops out at about 60-70mph and is very easy to land.


Have fun with yours!
Sammy70 is offline Find More Posts by Sammy70
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 12, 2013, 11:08 PM
JOHN 3:16
Sammy70's Avatar
Central Ohio
Joined Feb 2008
6,803 Posts
Here's another thread on this plane:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=flying+illus
Sammy70 is offline Find More Posts by Sammy70
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 13, 2013, 02:19 AM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy70 View Post
Looks great.

I assembled one of these for my uncle and he loves it.

I used what I had laying around--a 64mm fan with a Don's Wicked 4000+ motor running on 2200-2600mah 4s lipos.

Very light, takes off in 30-40', tops out at about 60-70mph and is very easy to land.


Have fun with yours!
I used the stock housing, the 4 blade performance impeller from a HK EDF unit and a 2800Kv motor, again from HK. It's not overly powerful, but it does fly for quite some time, which is my goal. This plane has so much lift that it doesn't feel like its under-powered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy70 View Post
Here's another thread on this plane:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=flying+illus
Yup, I've seen this one.
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 15, 2013, 07:05 AM
Smacko41
Smacko41's Avatar
Australia
Joined Jun 2013
142 Posts
Just bought one of these

Hi Arxangel.... I was trying to decide between the Hobby King T45 64mm and the BAE 70mm versions and after reading your blog spot and this thread I placed an order for the last BAE 70mm from the Australian websit! From the photos it appeas to have less cosmetic detail, but per your build blog, a better thought out design and assembly.
I was thinking of running a Mercury 64mm 4700kV EDF on 3S and 4S, building light without landing gear and using a bungee to launch. It appears the smaller Mercury unit should slot straight in as the EDF mounting appears to be recessed to accommodate the larger but shorter 70mm fan housing. (maybe this jet design previously used a 64mm edf and was later modified?)
I'm interested to know what your all up weight is. I'm after greater than 1:1 thrust ratio but not after something ballistically fast. The Mercury puts out about 1kg thrust on 3S, which I believe is a good starting point. (probably get about 900g once mounted in the fuselage.) Are you able to please tell me the exhaust diameter to better understand how a 64mm unit will perform?
Let me know your thoughts and keep the build updates coming.
By the way... what kind of speeds do you think you're seeing on 4S?
Smacko41 is offline Find More Posts by Smacko41
Last edited by Smacko41; Jun 15, 2013 at 07:14 AM. Reason: Added a question
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 16, 2013, 04:10 AM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Hi Smacko, I am glad to heat that somebody reads my blog, and I am happy that the information there was enough to help you choose a model.

The AUW on mine right now is 900 grams exactly, but don't have nearly as much thrust as you are getting from your EDF unit. As you may have seen on my blog, I am using the stock EDF housing with a 4-blade impeller from HK, which was supposed to be a "performance impeller" but its not really living up to its stated specs. I was getting 750 grams of thrust at 26 amps from this impeller and motor on my EDF thrust stand test. When I mounted it in the model I am getting 580-600 grams of thrust at 30 amps. It may be that this impeller is just not optimal for this motor, and I am hopping that will be the case, but I am expecting a delivery of a lot of fans for testing and we will see. Can you give me a link to your that Mercury unit you are planning on using? Thanks

Now on to your questions - the exhaust diameter is 60mm exactly, but I am guessing you could bring that down with a proper vectored thrust unit. As for speed on 4S... my motor is 2800Kv, so you are probably going to get much higher speeds than me. I can't say exactly what the speed is, but I would say it could be doing 100km/h.
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 2013, 08:11 AM
Smacko41
Smacko41's Avatar
Australia
Joined Jun 2013
142 Posts
Thanks for the reply. Here's the link to the Mercury unit.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dproduct=20142

Not cheap but it looks like a case of "You get what you pay for."

Appear to be a good compromise of thrust / power and the "whoosh" sound that I would like to have. (I'm not a big fan of EDFs that sound like a vacuum cleaner)
I might have a look at the new Changesun 12 bladers but will need to invest in some better batteries to push bigger motor required to drive it.

Hawk kit should arrive by weeks end so will make some decisions about what to power it with then.
Smacko41 is offline Find More Posts by Smacko41
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 2013, 02:59 PM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
DAMN!!! I've looked at this one, but I still think its kind of expensive, even for this performance. Have you actually tested that it gives 1kg of thrust on 3S?
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 17, 2013, 09:20 PM
Smacko41
Smacko41's Avatar
Australia
Joined Jun 2013
142 Posts
I have no first hand experience of this edf, just going by the quoted specs and reviews. A customer test I read showed 1kg thrust on 3s using high C battery. I figure 10-15% loss once installed so hoping for close to 1:1 ratio. If low on power may just buy 4s battery. Will decide once I receive the plane kit and had a good look over.
Smacko41 is offline Find More Posts by Smacko41
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 18, 2013, 03:33 AM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Can't wait to heat the results when you have a chance to test it. Please share!!
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2013, 04:40 PM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Here is a short video after the rudder mod. The rudder works amazingly well and the plane now does amazing coordinated turns. This model should come with a rudder pre-installed, it is a waste to fly this one without a rudder!!! I just love this mod...

Flying Illusion BAE Hawk T-45 70mm EDF with rudder mod (1 min 56 sec)
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 06, 2013, 07:21 AM
Smacko41
Smacko41's Avatar
Australia
Joined Jun 2013
142 Posts
OK, received my plane about 2 weeks ago and have had a good look over the airframe. Per your observations it appears to be a pretty good quality kit, especially the basswood frame that holds the wings on and gives the fuselage a nice rigid mid section.
I found one of the glue hinges on the ailerons has separated so will be replacing all with proper hinges, and will add a rudder per your mod.
The pre installed wing spars are a nice touch however there is still quite a bit of flex there. I believe a single 6mm carbon spar run across the whole wing section would have been a more effective (and cheaper) solution than the 3 x separate shorter ones........ I've heard wing flutter can be an issue with this frame when pushed hard so might look at this modification. (although Mr Disho on the T45 64mm thread just used heaps of glass tape on the wing under section with good results, even on 6S)
I'll be interested to see how fast this thing can go, as the general opinion is the airframe is quite draggy and I tend to agree. I think the ducting can be improved by moving the aileron servos outside to the wing undersides and some general smoothing of internal surfaces could improve things. The big "hump" just before the inlet of the EDF is a major flow issue and I'm not sure what to do with this as it appears to be there to support the tongue on the rear edge of the wing. Removal of this hump will weaken the wing mounting significantly so may resort to permanently gluing the wing all the way along the fuselage to compensate. Given the wing servos will be moved outside, access to these for servicing won't be an issue. Whilst on ducting I noticed the inlet necks down significantly just before the mouth of the EDF. Is this normal in other EDFs or just this one? If not I may open this area up a bit also when I install the Mercury.
Speaking of which I had to order the EDF unit direct from EPF Hobbies as Hobby King are out of stock and have no outlook for new ones. I ordered the EDF / ESC combo they sell which although pricey should give me a reliable power setup that can be used in other projects should I crash. Should have this next week.

http://www.epf.com.tw/goods.php?id=145

How is your Jet? Have you tested any other power set ups yet?
Smacko41 is offline Find More Posts by Smacko41
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 06, 2013, 10:06 AM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Glad to hear your frame arrived and everything is OK. I have not tried other power set ups mainly because I plan on mainly rewinding the existing motors and keeping the amp draw at 40A max. I do have a number of high blade count impellers that I will test in the coming days.

Yes this narrowing just before the EDF unit is only on this model, all other T-45s that I have are not like that. I've thought about moving the aileron servos on the outside, but I hate digging out foam and ruining the wing's good looks, so I will keep them inside. I have the 50mm T-45 which has a glue on wing and I hate that, I much prefer it stays detachable so I will not be gluing mine. I will be interested to heat how your performs with the EDF you got, but I am not too worried about flutter with mine, since the system is not the strongest yet and cannot possibly push it that fast.
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 07, 2013, 02:17 PM
Registered User
Arxangel's Avatar
Bulgaria, Sofia-grad, Sofia
Joined Feb 2012
2,067 Posts
Sooo, yesterday was an interesting day. I managed to successfully test a couple of "things" on the smaller T-45s, and I also managed to induce a lot of laughter in my fellow RC pilots at the field by landing this T-45 straight into a car's trunk... Its good that it didn't hit anyone on the way there!!!

Flying Illusion BAE Hawk T-45 70mm EDF Jet - an expert landing!!! (0 min 25 sec)
Arxangel is offline Find More Posts by Arxangel
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Build Log Hobbyking Flying Illusion BAE HAWK 70mm EDF EPO pajlotmato Foamy EDFs 9 Jan 11, 2014 03:43 PM
Build Log Flying Illusion BAe Hawk/T-45 Goshawk 70mm EDF fredmdbud Foamy EDFs 38 Sep 15, 2013 02:17 PM
Sold NIB UltraFly T-45 Bae Hawk Pusher Jet mt_100 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Jan 25, 2013 10:22 PM
Sold Flying Illusion BAE HAWK 70mm EDF material EPO pajlotmato Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 1 Dec 14, 2012 12:18 AM
Discussion BAE Hawk - 70mm EDF Maiden flight jjmelo Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 1 Oct 24, 2012 05:04 PM