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Old Apr 22, 2014, 11:29 PM
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About the faultful RunCam Sky new cam.

Perhaps you have already heard about our RunCam Sky camera, and have your own opinions about it. We know that the Beta Version has many bugs and some negative reviews. After collecting different reviews and reports, we know clearly about what should we improve and have done our best to fix the bugs. The new cam is about to release soon. We have invited some players to test the cam, soon you can see the video reports be posted on Youtube or Vimeo, I will also post here to let you know. Actually I am not a professional FPV player, so there are some questions I need to be advised. Like the following questions:

1. If the picture quality is equal to PZ0420 and all the bugs are fixed, what price do you think the official version should be?
A. $19-$29
B. $29-$39
C. $39-$49
D. &49-&59
You can kindly post your answer and list the reason why do you think it worth the price (If the bugs are fixed).

2. The following is what the Sky new cam looks like, what is your first impression about it? ???

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Old Apr 23, 2014, 08:50 AM
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If the quality will be equal, which for the moment, I still doubt, it should cost less than PZ0420. Why would one buy another camera for the same price as the proven one. Just because the weight?

My answer is:
A. $19-$29
I still would consider it if the price will be:
B. $29-$39
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 03:30 PM
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http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2152696
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Old Apr 23, 2014, 11:31 PM
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Thanks for your reply.

Hi all

Thanks for providing your ideas and thoughts and share with us your opinions. We would like to see all kind of comments from you. If it's positive feedback, we will be so happy that you recognize our efforts. If it's a negative feedback, thank you, you are helping us to improve the Sky cam.

For now, it is not fixed and still under testing and we also making some improvement base on your feedback. As you can see, the weight, dvr and goggle compatibility is improved, according to Keith's feedback, the picture quality is better than the beta version. But, the OSD issue is still under testing and we are know have narrowed down the causes and doing some tests. Hope it can be solved before May.

Regards,
Shannon
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 04:05 AM
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Why not just take the PZ0420 and put it in a plastic case to offer a little protection, after that, throw away the wires that nobody uses and offer a cable that has a servo lead at the end? Seems to me like your trying to offer a better camera but going about it in the wrong direction. Instead of changing the entire camera, just make it more useful to fpv.
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpvmodels View Post
Why not just take the PZ0420 and put it in a plastic case to offer a little protection, after that, throw away the wires that nobody uses and offer a cable that has a servo lead at the end? Seems to me like your trying to offer a better camera but going about it in the wrong direction. Instead of changing the entire camera, just make it more useful to fpv.
well pointed!
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 08:02 AM
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OSD issues

I was given a BETA sample of the camera to test and did so
PZ0420 vs Sky Optimized Settings (0 min 38 sec)


had similar experience with picture quality as others...but I was not using an OSD...which had many reported problems with OSDs using the unbiquitous MAXim 7546 chip

SC2000/RunCam sent me the above new release and I will be testing picture side by side with the PZ again, at factory and optimized settings again later today....already, I see a big improvement in picture quality....I ran an quick OSD test (PZ camera settings not the same as SKY but that does not affect OSD overlays) and here are the results below...

the SKY cam OSD overlay is much lighter, although visible now, as compared when using the PZ0420....being a retired EE my guess is that the OSD overlay chip is missing every other sync from the camera...either its refresh rate is not the NTSC standard, or or the sync pulse level or rate is not compliant and therefore the OSD is missing it
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 03:43 PM
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I posted in the other thread regarding the OSD dimming, but now looking at ATX_Heli's photo I see 2 different symptoms. ATX has missing OSD lines, and Subaru has what appears to be a dim OSD overlay. I'm no expert, just an interested hobbyist who agree's with ATX_heli that the signal may be out of spec. I understand enough about composite signal processing to leave the task of solving this problem to a properly trained EE.

In efforts to help these EE's with a fix, I'll inject some basic facts (they probably already know this, but for the rest of us trying to follow along and learn something)... MinimOSD uses a common implementation of the Max7456 chip. Most FPV aircraft use the same video I/O circuit. So it makes sense to use it as a model for compatibility, no? The schem can be downloaded at 3dr. The Max REQUIRES a 0.1uF AC coupled input due to a design limitaiton. You can't just increase the value to improve stability; that might be a problem for some cameras. The max has internal DC restore. The minim design makes use of the Max's SAG mode for video output. Presumably this is done to save weight and space on caps, but not sure if/how that feeds back to the input source.

Kev
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 05:09 PM
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Side by side with the PZ0420

here is a quick test:

PZ0420 vs RunCam SKY rev2 (2 min 47 sec)


Much improved over the beta...in fact, may be a little better than PZ on dynamic range....I did spend a little time on trying to get the best image on the SKY...used my normal setting for the PZ...

if the OSD issue can be resolved and its priced within a few dollars of the PZ0420, then the smaller size makes it saleable....would be even better in a plastic version of its case!
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Old Apr 24, 2014, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atx_Heli View Post
here is a quick test:

http://youtu.be/ftbQUlOfWd0

Much improved over the beta...in fact, may be a little better than PZ on dynamic range....I did spend a little time on trying to get the best image on the SKY...used my normal setting for the PZ...

if the OSD issue can be resolved and its priced within a few dollars of the PZ0420, then the smaller size makes it saleable....would be even better in a plastic version of its case!
Hi Atx_Heli

Thanks for your comment and your time to do the test. For now, we are concentrating on solving the OSD problem, hope can be fixed soon.

Regards,
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Old Apr 25, 2014, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite View Post
I posted in the other thread regarding the OSD dimming, but now looking at ATX_Heli's photo I see 2 different symptoms. ATX has missing OSD lines, and Subaru has what appears to be a dim OSD overlay. I'm no expert, just an interested hobbyist who agree's with ATX_heli that the signal may be out of spec. I understand enough about composite signal processing to leave the task of solving this problem to a properly trained EE.

In efforts to help these EE's with a fix, I'll inject some basic facts (they probably already know this, but for the rest of us trying to follow along and learn something)... MinimOSD uses a common implementation of the Max7456 chip. Most FPV aircraft use the same video I/O circuit. So it makes sense to use it as a model for compatibility, no? The schem can be downloaded at 3dr. The Max REQUIRES a 0.1uF AC coupled input due to a design limitaiton. You can't just increase the value to improve stability; that might be a problem for some cameras. The max has internal DC restore. The minim design makes use of the Max's SAG mode for video output. Presumably this is done to save weight and space on caps, but not sure if/how that feeds back to the input source.

Kev

Well pointed. And could you please give the link to the thread you post?

Regards,
RunCam Group
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Old Apr 29, 2014, 01:13 PM
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RunCam, here is the thread I was talking about for the OSD issue:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6#post28181360

...the Minim-OSD v1.1 schematic (v0.1, 1.0, and 1.2 all have the same video connections):
http://stuff.storediydrones.com/MinimOSD-v11.rar

...the Max7456 datasheet:
https://www.sparkfun.com/datasheets/...ds/MAX7456.pdf

...the specific code Brian runs on his OSD board (Max7456 config is identical across all the versions; this config is typical among the various codes that FPV pilots are using with minim-OSD hardware):
http://code.google.com/p/scarab-osd/wiki/Downloads

I should add that I looked at the source code Brian is running on his OSD; the default uses the maximum output white level of the Max chip, and Brian did not change that. This is supported by the fact that the same OSD board displays bright white characters when a pz0420 is attached, and those characters get dim when replaced with a Runcam (no changes other than swapping cameras). I thought the Max7456 input clamp would correct for that, but apparently not. I hope you can share what changes you make to fix it... maybe we can all learn a little about composite video circuit design from this.

Kev

ps: I'm not sure if this has come up anywhere else yet, but a friend of mine had a major problem with the grounded metal case on his Runcam. It created a high current ground loop which actually melted the camera's black wire! After inspecting the problem, we determined that because he is using a metal frame and his lipo is grounded to it, the black wires leading from the camera, to the vtx, and to the lipo were forming a ground loop that was passing some motor current (and obviously VTx power) through the camera. I suggested he isolate the camera case from the frame with plastic screws and rubber washers; he will probably just mount it with double sided tape, but that should also work :P. I suggest you include non-conductive hardware with the new metal case, or at least provide some bold warning about the potential for ground loops when the metal case is connected to ground (with the black wire also connected). Besides my friend's "metalhead" frame, there are many conductive carbon fiber frame designs running about. So the grounded casing could become a popular problem if it isn't addressed. That said, I like the idea of having a Faraday cage around my camera; can't hurt it just needs to be done with respect to high current ground paths.
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Old Apr 30, 2014, 07:18 AM
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I dont understand this part:

"If the picture quality is equal to PZ0420 and all the bugs are fixed, what price do you think the official version should be?"

My answer is i dont care, PZ0420 works and is already dirt cheap! Plus it looks like a camera, and not something a 5 year old had a go at with a silver pen!
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Old May 01, 2014, 12:47 PM
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Here are my test video's after testing both the RunCam BETA & the replacement RunCam with my MinimOSD board.

RunCam BETA:
OSD issue with RUNCAM (0 min 53 sec)


Replacement RunCam (with a fancy silver aluminum case like the one shown above):
Second Failed RUNCAM (1 min 5 sec)


A fellow pilot also received these cameras and had the same problem with his Skylark OSD. Do those use the Max7456 chip as well?
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Old May 27, 2014, 10:26 AM
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Wow, I didn't even realize this thread existed.

Early prototype Skycam:
Runcam Skycam Review (5 min 10 sec)


The production version:
Skycam review, take two (8 min 29 sec)



I'm the one with the metal framed mini quad and the ground loop issue. I have yet to go over the quad and rebuild it, I am afraid to use it as-is, and I really need to think about this metal and isolating everything from it. I will most likely just install a PZO420 on that quad. I already burned out a motor and several wiring harnesses while trying to troubleshoot the issue and I hate the flashing OSD on the skycam. I only use Skylark OSD's and they are no compatible with the Skycam camera.
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