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Old Oct 29, 2013, 10:44 PM
352nd FG Association
Moonbeam's Avatar
United States, GA, Decatur
Joined Mar 2004
3,959 Posts
[QUOTE=shigetyann;26428169]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post
Hey gang, for anyone who's ICON has bad tail wag, I just did a simple mod and tested it yesterday with 100% elimination of the wag.

I was surprised no one had done it before, or if they did, why they didn't post it.QUOTE]

To Moonbeam

I did and posted #461.

Shige
Fins? Don't see it. Besides it was a combination of fins, CF in the lower tail and two bamboo pegs in the cradle that holds the horizontal tail. Mine doesn't wag at all and Renfield hates my guts because of it. Oh well, I fly with a smile.
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Old Oct 30, 2013, 07:03 AM
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shigetyann's Avatar
centrea Japan
Joined Nov 2006
443 Posts
[QUOTE=Moonbeam;26503178]
Quote:
Originally Posted by shigetyann View Post

Fins? Don't see it. Besides it was a combination of fins, CF in the lower tail and two bamboo pegs in the cradle that holds the horizontal tail. Mine doesn't wag at all and Renfield hates my guts because of it. Oh well, I fly with a smile.
Hi Moonbeam

Yes, there is no fins.
Back to the problem.
Do you think what is the essential problem?
The weakness of latter half of the fuselage is the answer.

So I reinforced the latter half of the fuse using carbon flat rods with least projection.

I don't think a good plan to add any fins, because revise the idea of ICON A-5.

Thanks

Shige
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Old Oct 30, 2013, 03:58 PM
352nd FG Association
Moonbeam's Avatar
United States, GA, Decatur
Joined Mar 2004
3,959 Posts
[QUOTE=shigetyann;26505047]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post

Hi Moonbeam

Yes, there is no fins.
Back to the problem.
Do you think what is the essential problem?
The weakness of latter half of the fuselage is the answer.

So I reinforced the latter half of the fuse using carbon flat rods with least projection.

I don't think a good plan to add any fins, because revise the idea of ICON A-5.

Thanks

Shige

"Do you think what is the essential problem?"

I don't "think" anything. I KNOW because I proved my fix worked. It's turbulence caused by the design (and we know models react differently than their full size counterparts), that exploits the weakness of the tail and causes it to twist and flex. I added the CF rod to the aft lower tail to strengthen it, but that ain't the only weak spot, (now of course we are talking about the big ICON in this case.), the cradle at the top that holds the horizontal tail is attached very poorly. Very little glue and there's about 1/2" of "dead foam" between the elevator servo and bottom edge of the cradle that has a "yaw" twist in turbulence. By adding two little pieces of bamboo skewer to hold the cradle from twisting, and the CF rod keeping the lower portion from twisting, and the fins helping to direct the turbulent air....... the wag is gone.

I'm not stroking my ego, matching wits, or being a jerk like some people in these forums do when they sleep at a Holiday Inn Express and wake up an aeronautical engineering genius. I'm just saying, "this is what I did, and it worked for me. Maybe I'm the only one." Here's the two videos I did, the 1st is onboard and shows the severity of the wag. The 2nd is from the ground and shows the wag is gone.

And I personally think the fins look cool, but that's just me and a few folks who've also added them.

Parkzone ICON A5 (Flight #5) (9 min 4 sec)


ICON A5 with tail Fin Mod. (10 min 2 sec)


In the end, it's whatever works for you, makes you happy, etc. There's more than one solution, I just like to share info I gain from testing in case it's useful to someone else. Because although brand and programming of gyros to fix the problem is helpful to some, it wasn't to me. It was a "lazy fix" that cost money that didn't need to be spent.
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Last edited by Moonbeam; Oct 30, 2013 at 04:07 PM. Reason: edit
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Old Oct 30, 2013, 07:04 PM
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Vancouver, BC
Joined Aug 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post

"Do you think what is the essential problem?"

I don't "think" anything. I KNOW because I proved my fix worked.
Go easy on Shige. He's from Japan and English is not his first language. His English is way better than my (and probably your) Japanese!

Also, if you look at the 1.09m Icon (Not Guanli) thread, you'll see that he has contributed a lot of useful information and modifications to that model. As well as some great videos!
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Old Oct 30, 2013, 07:55 PM
above us only sky
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United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
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[QUOTE=shigetyann;26505047]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post

Yes, there is no fins.

I don't think a good plan to add any fins, because revise the idea of ICON A-5.

Thanks

Shige
I only speak sushi bar japanese, but this seems clear enough. To a blind person.

Domo arigato, Shige!
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Old Oct 31, 2013, 08:08 AM
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centrea Japan
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443 Posts
[QUOTE=Moonbeam;26509110]
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Originally Posted by shigetyann View Post

Thank you, mates, supporting my poor English.
I'm learning it enroll in forums.

Hi Moonbeam,

You and I share the essential problem in common.
It's turbulence caused by her airscrew. This is the fate from her near-future design.
However the difference is concept to solve tail twist and flex.
NFD ICON A-5 A488, it's this thread theme for a long time not at start though, has weak tail, so to increase the intensity of the tail part is one of the solutions.
In the high speed flying, the NFD ICON starts to swing her tail. I've never suffered twist in the landing seqence like your ParkZone ICON A5.

Thank you for sharing your nice videos.
The first video proved her swing in the landing sequence from 3min50sec to 4 minutes from the start. (Detract from the theme, I want to seee the other on-board video that is after adding fins. It's hard to compare its effect.)
This showed the difference of NFD ICON A-5 and ParkZone ICON A5.
Besides of these sizes, NFD 1800mm wing span and ParkZone's 1330mm, similarity shape causes the near tendency.

The difference is only the approach way to solve her habit.
I assent your solution favorably.
I'll try fin idea. However I add clear plastic plates under horizontal stabilizer to be hard to visible.

Thank you all!!

Shige
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Old Oct 31, 2013, 11:32 AM
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Vancouver, BC
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Originally Posted by shigetyann View Post
Thank you, mates, supporting my poor English.
I'm learning it enroll in forums.
No problem! Your English is fine, and as I said earlier, way better than my Japanese!
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Old Mar 02, 2014, 01:23 PM
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United States, CT, Bristol
Joined Feb 2013
76 Posts
Is anyone still around this thread,I just got one of these from KMP Models. I cant seem to find a motor to match the spec. any help would be appreciated. would like to go 2x3300 3s as I have other 6s setups.
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Old Apr 06, 2014, 08:21 AM
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Belgium
Joined Aug 2012
3 Posts
Hi Mates,

I hope there are still people around here to read this. I have just recently built my A5, and it flies horrible. The COG is set exactly at the grooves of the servo wires, but it dives like hell with neutral elevator, I have to apply about 15-20% elevator to fly level. I am flying with 4500mAh 4s lipo's and 12x6 two blade pusher.
There is enough speed and power to keep it in the air, but I don't understand how can be the COG so wrong. When I cut the throttle it still keeps diving, so I think it is not the motor angle as I see. Nevertheless I have tried to tilt the motor angle upwards by 2-3 degrees and the diving tendency didn't change...

Can someone chime in to give an advise here, I would apprecitate it very much,

Happy flying,
Janos
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Old Apr 08, 2014, 05:29 PM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Joined May 2010
2,707 Posts
3 days since you posted and no reply, I thought I say hi

I still have a lot to learn in aerodynamics but if your CG is as per what everyone else is using, and she still seriously dives with nil throttle and all control surfaces are neutral including flaps, then the next area I would investigate would be decalage, the angle of the tail horizontal stabilizer in relation to the main wings.
I'm thinking if the plane constantly wants to nose dive then perhaps the trailing edge of the horiz stab should be shimmed higher.
Shim a little at a time, otherwise you may end up with an opposite issue that may not be recoverable leading to a crash.
If you do try lifting the trailing edge by shimming, I'd also return the motor mount to the original position, seeing as your experiment in changing the thrust angle made no difference, otherwise you may introduce other problems resulting in confusion. I always make one change at a time.
Hope that may help a little.

If those with more knowledge are still lurking around this thread, feel free to chime in, I'd like to learn too
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Old Apr 09, 2014, 09:07 AM
above us only sky
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United States, SC, Greenville
Joined Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AussieHoppy View Post
3 days since you posted and no reply, I thought I say hi

I still have a lot to learn in aerodynamics but if your CG is as per what everyone else is using, and she still seriously dives with nil throttle and all control surfaces are neutral including flaps, then the next area I would investigate would be decalage, the angle of the tail horizontal stabilizer in relation to the main wings.
I'm thinking if the plane constantly wants to nose dive then perhaps the trailing edge of the horiz stab should be shimmed higher.
Shim a little at a time, otherwise you may end up with an opposite issue that may not be recoverable leading to a crash.
If you do try lifting the trailing edge by shimming, I'd also return the motor mount to the original position, seeing as your experiment in changing the thrust angle made no difference, otherwise you may introduce other problems resulting in confusion. I always make one change at a time.
Hope that may help a little.

If those with more knowledge are still lurking around this thread, feel free to chime in, I'd like to learn too
This was an issue with the discontinued ParkZone Icon A5, and it was fixed precisely as you describe. By inserting a small shim at the rear of the horizontal stabilizer, I was able to remove elevator up trim for level flight.

I had to look up "decalage." Thanks for providing my word of the day!
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