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Old Mar 28, 2010, 04:44 PM
Mc-Fly
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Melbourne-Australia
Joined Mar 2008
1,110 Posts
Well done Gordon, nice concept. Not a bad weight loss indeed, considering that the Sukhoi brick is heavier than the vapor brick also!
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 09:00 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
Yeah, I kept thinking about the 0.5g or so extra weight for the AR6400 vs. the Vapor brick. In the end I went for plug-n-play and took the weight hit. Glad you like it.

Making and hooking up the aileron control rods right now. I should have it done long before our April 25 Indoor.

Gordon
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 08:43 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
As promised, here are the plans for the aileron wing for the Vapor and related light ply bits.
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 08:55 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
Here's how to cut out the wing. Although I did the wing for my Vapor on my laser cutter, it is not necessary to have a laser to make this wing. I've cut out similar stuff by hand for years before I had a laser.

All that's required are some sharpened brass tubes. I use K&S tubes from a hobby shop, purchased years ago. Sharpen the tubes with a file on one end. I wrap mine with duct tape on the other end to keep them from cutting into my palm.

Print out the two wing halves from the plans. It helps to print on colored paper so it will show up better on white foam. Cut out these templates with a sharp hobby knife. Dust the back of each template with a minimal amount of 3M77 or similar spray adhesive. It only takes a little and you want to be able to remove the template afterwards. Apply the templates to the foam to be cut.

I demonstrate here for only one wing half. You would want to butt the two wing half templates against each other and cut out a one piece wing.

Using whatever diameter brass tube comes close to the radius of each inside corner, punch out the corners with a pressing twisting motion. The tube diameter does not have to match the corners on the plan exactly. Next, using a very sharp hobby knife cut out the sections between the punched out corners. Then, cut out the perimeter of the wing. And, your wing is done.

On the plan there are two rectangles near the leading and trailing edges at the middle of the wing. These are where the cutouts for the Vapor plastic wing saddles will be inserted. These are cut out about 3/4 of the way through the foam on the underside of the wing. Don't cut all the way through to the other side. Using your hobby knife peel the interiors of these cutouts out leaving a pocket where the wing saddles will be glued in place when gluing the wing on.

I spent a total of 10 minutes punching holes and cutting out one wing half. So, it really doesn't take that long to make your own Vapor Aileron wing.

Ok, have fun. Let's see some Aileron Vapors. Ask questions as needed.

Gordon

Usin
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Last edited by Gordon Johnson; Apr 10, 2010 at 08:31 AM.
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 09:42 PM
Registered User
Westbrook Maine
Joined Apr 2003
594 Posts
Gordon,
Are you covering both sides of the wing? I have some microlite covering that I was thinking about putting on a vapor to increase visibility. Your wing definitely looks better than the stock wing.

Fritz
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 09:51 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
Fritz,
No, I cover just the top side. Covering both sides is not needed with planes that fly this slow. Look at Dave Lewis' site for weight of RA Microlight vs his clear poly micro. The Microlight covering is light, but it's still substantially heavier than the clear film. However, I thought about using Microlight for looks reasons.

Speaking of looks, I decided to make a tail to match the wing. It looks funny with the round tail and the foam wing. The weight gain over the stock tail is 0.4g. The elevator is identical to the one on my Airbender. The rudder is adapted from the Airbender rudder.

I'll post a pdf file for the tail pieces when I know they are finalized and fit correctly on the plane. And, I'll post some pics of the new tail installed on the plane when I've completed that step.

Gordon
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Old Apr 09, 2010, 10:16 PM
Love the sport, not the plane
Hawaii
Joined Oct 2009
1,234 Posts
Sweet! I really can't wait for a vid! If only with wing didn't have any undercamber, then you could fly a vapor inverted! Now that would be a sight…
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 07:44 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
You can fly an undercamber plane inverted. I've seen it done at KIEF last year by Nick Leichty, with a bipe with way more undercamber than the Vapor has. It did, however, fly inverted with high angle of attack. Don't forget the Vapor is a high wing pylon plane. That won't help it fly inverted either. But, I'm sure it can be done.

Gordon
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Last edited by Gordon Johnson; Apr 10, 2010 at 07:53 AM.
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 08:08 AM
I don't want to "Switch Now"
pmackenzie's Avatar
Toronto (Don Mills), Canada
Joined Dec 2002
16,952 Posts
The stock Vapor can fly inverted, but it is tricky.
Too much down elevator or too much power and it will not stay up, and the rudder is reversed, I think because the dihedral goes negative.
CG needs to be well back, wing all the way forward and battery all the way back.

If you are going to fly inverted do a half loop and stop it inverted while it still has the 5 -10 degrees of "nose up"

You can even coax an outside loop out of it, but only from upright.

Pat MacKenzie
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 10:34 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
Here are pictures with the alternate tail.

Gordon
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Old Apr 10, 2010, 01:23 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dylantorquerol View Post
Sweet! I really can't wait for a vid! If only with wing didn't have any undercamber, then you could fly a vapor inverted! Now that would be a sight…
It would be trivial to make the wing flat if you wanted to do this on one of your planes. Just make the center rib and the two outer ribs flat and proceed the same. You'd have a flat wing Aileron Vapor.

Gordon
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 12:45 AM
Love the sport, not the plane
Hawaii
Joined Oct 2009
1,234 Posts
Thanks. I actually don't have a vapor but I sukhoi. Now all you need to do is make the wing in the center and brushless and you have another airbender… Still this is awesome!
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 05:56 AM
Fly long and land softly
Jim_Marconnet's Avatar
Madison, Alabama USA
Joined Oct 2005
5,401 Posts
Gordon:

Great work always and especially on this Aileron Vapor! Thanks for sharing.

I'm watching and waiting to see how it all turns out. The ailerons look a bit small to me for 3D, but I've been proven wrong on several things over some time.

I recently bought a Vapor Parts Lot off EBAY, so I have several Vapors with thoroughly smushed wings. But no cheap source for that $20.00 aileron servo yet.

I have ordered some of the similar but different tiny linear servos from Hobby City. But I hesitated and their stock is now in the -200s, so that order may take a while. Plus on those I'll have to solder on a different connector. Or at least a wire to the Vapor board to use the Vapor brick and to save that .5 gram of the real AR6400 vs Vapor brick. Always tradeoffs!

Keep up the great work, and know that I'm watching this project with baited breath!

Jim
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 08:33 AM
Way to many airplanes!
Canada, QC
Joined Oct 2009
5,489 Posts
For people who are wondering about flying inverted on a stock Vapor...

It's waaaaay much easier on a very old Vapor than a brand new one. You have way more wing FLEX after those long session of looping continuously and "hard" landing... So after a while, when you fly inverted with your "very old" Vapor, the wing will literally lay flat. So if you have a new Vapor, it's feasible (as other have very nicely explained), but with an old beaten one, you can literally fly inverted for as long as you want... (And even in circles!). Tricky and sure enough, you don't always decide yourself when you get out of inverted, but hey, showing off is always fun.
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Old Apr 11, 2010, 09:05 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,432 Posts
Yes the ailerons are smaller. This is a Vapor with Ailerons, but I doubt it will be a 3D plane with the stock 6mm propulsion system. Its thrust/weight ratio will be lower than stock. Nor will this plane be able to do knife edges since it has a stick fuselage. So, I made the ailerons smaller, consistent with what I think this plane will be able to do, and consistent with my son's flying ability since he will be flying it. However if you want larger ailerons all you have to do is increase the size of the aileron portion of the wing when cutting yours out.

There are lots of options. Go with the stock tail or make a new one. Go with an undercambered wing or a flat one. Go with larger ailerons if desired. But, none of these will make the plane an Airbender which has the wing in the centerline of the fuselage, lots of side area for knife edges, and a higher thrust/weigh ratio.

This will be a Vapor with Ailerons and the Airbender will be, well, an Airbender. Think of mine as a jump off point showing others how to proceed, but they can personalize, adapt, tweak, as they want.

You could always rob an AR6400 and linear servo from a Sukhoi instead of using the heavier HK servo. My plane is looking likely to come in at 17.5g or so with the new tail etc. The weight is already adding up.

Gordon
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Last edited by Gordon Johnson; Apr 11, 2010 at 09:25 AM.
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