Originally Posted by Larry Jolly

Marc, There are many builders make light models like DP's light 4m.

The one thing they all these feather weights have in common is that they are specialty airplanes.
You have to watch the launch stresses, andthey really show wear and tear quickly.
They are not an airplane for the avergae clubby. In addition you have to be on your toes while flying them. They don't appeal to me since I end up flying in the real world. LJ

PFFT Larry we all know you fly your aspire when you are allowed to...

I would put my X2 with the molded tail group up against any other bird for wear and tear. I had a X1 early production Spread tow at 63 oz which everyone said was "too lite". I did 3 years of TD with it - a TS - a weekend clinic with DP launching it for all its worth and the SOS CHildrens Village contest at the WC.

I have a landing video from that last round where I planted an X1 at sub 1 second hard! I cant post it because its 150 MB - if you have access to the Kempton park folder for the drop box users who uploaded thier SA pics and videos you can see it under Edmond/Videos - check out the second video. You can see the line judges ducking and people moving out of the way - good fun.

Note - no carbon fiber was injured during the making of this movie...

Dave
63 ounces is is not light. I have seen and flown sub 50 ounce F3J models that will take the launch. I flew all season with Eser Kismer and am very familiar with the wear and tear factor I speak of. And last I didn't rate you as a clubbie flyer, after your fly-off spot this year I figure you have the judgement to know when to back off.. Jim McCarthy says he is still looking for you...

Originally Posted by Larry Jolly

Dave
63 ounces is is not light. I have seen and flown sub 50 ounce F3J models that will take the launch. I flew all season with Eser Kismer and am very familiar with the wear and tear factor I speak of. And last I didn't rate you as a clubbie flyer, after your fly-off spot this year I figure you have the judgement to know when to back off.. Jim McCarthy says he is still looking for you...

Easy bro good judgement will come with age they say...im still waiting.

- i'll agree the 50 ish oz models are certainly not for the faint hearted...my foam stuff was wrapped carefully and probably will not be flown accept in specific conditions assuming it survived at all.

I was looking for you at the WSM - Nothing to do there for me but open a bottle!That was a dissaster in logistics to say the least. Not only did my models get delayed on the way out via UPS removing me from day 1 but I have a call from my shipper tellig me to "bring a camera" for the return leg via fedex. I think I used up my good luck in SA all in one contest.

And I am STILL a clubbie flyer! I just have less life\Work\Family\r/c balance than some other club members

I just got back from Chicago Tuesday night from an extended work trip - Mr M and co will be dealth with via the US postal system today when I go get whats left of my planes. I hope Fedex insurance is not a pain in the ass to deal with

DW

Sorry for missing you at the WSM had to go to Slovenia for the last F3J Eurotour of the season. LJ

Originally Posted by Larry Jolly

Sorry for missing you at the WSM had to go to Slovenia for the last F3J Eurotour of the season. LJ

ooohh rub it in! I might consider a summer station in Eu next summer possibly Germany for June-Sept it would be cool to catch it and fly where they allow it.

So of course after I poke you Larry my SL fuse gets abused by Fedex. I am checking the rest of the gear this morning but it looks like and small crease in the fin due to dropping the crate in transit. It could have been way worse. Its not near the elevator crank at least....

Originally Posted by Larry Jolly

Marc, There are many builders make light models like DP's light 4m.

The one thing they all these feather weights have in common is that they are specialty airplanes.
You have to watch the launch stresses, andthey really show wear and tear quickly.
They are not an airplane for the avergae clubby. In addition you have to be on your toes while flying them. They don't appeal to me since I end up flying in the real world. LJ

Hmmm... not sure exactly what world I've been flying in.

I am not aware of any 53 ounce 4m models being built out there, by anyone but Nan. Is this a specialty built airframe? Yes - what's wrong with that? But it's MUCH stronger than I'd given it credit for. I certainly don't need to baby it, and I haven't. I've flown it with a 27 ounce brass bar in conditions it was soooo not meant for. (But it's all I had with me at that particular comp) I launched it as hard as I would have launched anything else. No spar creases, I won my rounds (well, except one). But we all need to stop trying to make every airframe work for all conditions. At 53 ounces, does it cover ground like a 110 ounce F3B model? No. I fly in the real world... where it's silly to believe there is one perfect airframe and weight that is right for all conditions. I know, that with unlimited resources, lighter models can certainly be built. Most of us don't have access to those resources.

The point of my post was mostly to point out that the X2 has opened my eyes about the direction our soarers are going. The X2 sections are a welcome evolution to the floaty type of airfoils we're all used to on our TD/J ships, and with these more slippery sections, will allow for a much lighter model to work for us going forward... yes, even in the real world.

Daryl,
Just for comparison when you get a chance compare the X2 section and the Aspire section. LJ

In case anyone was wondering my 3.8 meter Xplorer ST lite is just about finished and comes in at 67 oz with the CG at about 125mm. If I want it balanced more forward it will get heavier and more aft it will be lighter... I don't know if that is considered heavy for being an 'ST' Xplorer II or not... Maybe I have used unnecessarily heavy servos, servo-leads etc... Or too much glue when affixing the servoframes to the wing-skins...
How it performs remains to be seen.

Originally Posted by freddan2244

In case anyone was wondering my 3.8 meter Xplorer ST lite is just about finished and comes in at 67 oz with the CG at about 125mm. If I want it balanced more forward it will get heavier and more aft it will be lighter... I don't know if that is considered heavy for being an 'ST' Xplorer II or not... Maybe I have used unnecessarily heavy servos, servo-leads etc... Or too much glue when affixing the servoframes to the wing-skins...
How it performs remains to be seen.

Your X is just fine - get it into the air.

You are going to love it. Don't lose sleep over the few onces between yours and others.

In the last 6 months of jabbing guys about model weights (and secretly taking some notes and advice) I have really experiemented with that plane at 67-77 and 99 oz - 67 is still nice and lite. Its really only in the very rare scenarios that you need to be concerned with a super Lite ship and while those scenarios seem to really be evident in my local region I can't say I experience the same when I travel to contests. So 67 oz sounds nice to me.

Its been totally slack winds here for 2 days. Not enough wind to blow a soap bubble around...I am almost hoping for more fall weather so I can get out and play at the heavier weights

Originally Posted by Larry Jolly

Daryl,
Just for comparison when you get a chance compare the X2 section and the Aspire section. LJ

LJ - I'd love to... just me the coordinates for both...

There are no Aspires out here for comparison.

D

Well, trying to build a light model bit me in the ass hard this weekend at the fall fest! I was doing great and in the top 10 for a lot of the comp until both my 809 flap servos in my 3.8 X2 shat themselves during a flight.

I was skied out and needed to get down, so I went to full flaps and pointed the nose down. I would say it was like this for about 45 seconds making a slow spiraling decent. Everything was good. I lined up over my shoulder at 20 seconds and headed downwind. Dropped about 25 percent flaps to control airspeed, and it sort of dipped a bit. That should have been my first indicator. Turned to final, pulled a little more flaps, and they actually came down a bit, so no worries. Put them back up as I was getting a bit slow, right over the berm on approach I need full flap. Pulled them down, and holy crap the thing just nose dived straight in and burried itself to about mid canopy. That was the elevator comp kicking in, but no flap action happening. I walked up and could smell burned up servos.

I had never smashed a plane so hard into the ground before on landing, It was freaking loud, and you could see the wings flex, and the boom flexed. I was sure it was toast. I guess it goes to show you that NAN builds some good stuff because no damage at all.

Back in the pit I took the covers off, and both 809's had melted. I'm putting 761's in, I don't care if the plane gains .5 oz.

On a side note, this was the first time I flew the 3.8 besides a few hand tosses. I have to say I prefer it now to the 3.5 in calm and somewhat mild conitions. Floats and moves out awesome! I'm glad I did not brake it.

I'm officially over the whole "how light is your plane" thing. I'm just building for durability now.

Originally Posted by ak79

Well, trying to build a light model bit me in the ass hard this weekend at the fall fest! I was doing great and in the top 10 for a lot of the comp until both my 809 flap servos in my 3.8 X2 shat themselves during a flight.

I was skied out and needed to get down, so I went to full flaps and pointed the nose down. I would say it was like this for about 45 seconds making a slow spiraling decent. Everything was good. I lined up over my shoulder at 20 seconds and headed downwind. Dropped about 25 percent flaps to control airspeed, and it sort of dipped a bit. That should have been my first indicator. Turned to final, pulled a little more flaps, and they actually came down a bit, so no worries. Put them back up as I was getting a bit slow, right over the berm on approach I need full flap. Pulled them down, and holy crap the thing just nose dived straight in and burried itself to about mid canopy. That was the elevator comp kicking in, but no flap action happening. I walked up and could smell burned up servos.

I had never smashed a plane so hard into the ground before on landing, It was freaking loud, and you could see the wings flex, and the boom flexed. I was sure it was toast. I guess it goes to show you that NAN builds some good stuff because no damage at all.

Back in the pit I took the covers off, and both 809's had melted. I'm putting 761's in, I don't care if the plane gains .5 oz.

On a side note, this was the first time I flew the 3.8 besides a few hand tosses. I have to say I prefer it now to the 3.5 in calm and somewhat mild conitions. Floats and moves out awesome! I'm glad I did not brake it.

I'm officially over the whole "how light is your plane" thing. I'm just building for durability now.

I dont want to derail the topic of this thread but having flown that servo for 4 years 3 of them being in the flap servos of my ST 3.5 im a little suprised. I simply abused the hell out of my 809's and they are still perfect!

If you could post the following answers to me via a PM I would be interested -

What battery were you using ? (type and voltage)

What Radio system are you using (tx and rx, voltage reg ?)

What harness were you using ?

at full deflection did yours servos hum or buzz ?

Originally Posted by ak79

I'm just building for durability now.

Glad the plane is okay. Bravo for your common sense conclusion. Quick question: what voltage were you running the servos at?

(just saw my Q is a dupe from DW's post above)
Chris B.

What battery were you using ? (type and voltage) 5cell eneloop

What Radio system are you using (tx and rx, voltage reg ?) SD10, 10ch rx, no reg

What harness were you using ? I make my own, 26 gauge twisted wire

at full deflection did yours servos hum or buzz ? They were buzzing for sure

I don't think it had anything to do with the harness or battery. I am going to have another look at my linkage as I rushed to build the plane in time for the comp.