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Old Mar 09, 2005, 03:53 PM
I crash, therefore I FLY!
mad mike's Avatar
Spring Hill, FL
Joined Feb 2003
1,489 Posts
Tractor mounting?

I've done some looking around with the "Search" function, but didn't have a lot of luck. Can anyone tell me how to go about mounting a motor on a wing in a tractor configuration?

I'm looking at doing that on a basic Zagnutz wing and wondering about the thrust angle and other things, such as perhaps needing to use a folding prop.

I'm most interested in hearing from those who've actually done this.

Thanks,

Mike S.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 04:26 PM
zagnutz fiend
stirlingnut's Avatar
tulsa,ok
Joined Jul 2004
1,426 Posts
I built a 42 inch zagnutz,used a geared 300 motor in tractor fashion and it worked fine as a slow flyer.I had installed the motor straight,with no down/side thrust.I have some pics,let me know,I'll repost after I get home from work.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 04:39 PM
I crash, therefore I FLY!
mad mike's Avatar
Spring Hill, FL
Joined Feb 2003
1,489 Posts
Yes, I'd love to see some pictures of that!

And "slowflyer" is probably closer to my goal that what most want out of their flying wings. I am looking at getting into AP and am gathering info on that subject.

Mike S.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 04:50 PM
ProBro 1634
MGoddard's Avatar
Enterprise, Alabama
Joined Feb 2003
1,146 Posts
take a look at the www.superflyrc.com page. They have one that is a tractor....
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 05:01 PM
Registered User
Near Austin
Joined Dec 2001
5,393 Posts
The ZagNutz works just fine in a tractor config. No angles needed. You can either use a ply floor with a firewall, or just use two hardwood rails glued to the bottom (inside) of the wing. Flies noticeably different than a pusher!

CTF
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 05:15 PM
I crash, therefore I FLY!
mad mike's Avatar
Spring Hill, FL
Joined Feb 2003
1,489 Posts
CTF,

I'd have directed this question straight to YOU, but I'm more than a little embarrassed because I've had most of the parts cut out for the Zagnutz from your old web site, along with the PALS pdf, but got distracted, fell off the wagon, and didn't get any of it built!

But I've got a little time now to build the 'Nutz and get used to how it flies, so I can get started learning a little about AP.

I've read a number of your post on the flying wing for AP and have decided that I want to try this, but I'm sure I'll be wanting other types of platforms, as well. (Well, maybe.)

To get started, I'm working on the wife to let me order the Nikon 3700 before the rebate offer expires!

I have a new 8 ch Tx on order, thinking the extra chanels could come in handy for a tilt & pan camera mount.

Glad to see your post in this thread! I've just started asking questions in the AP Forum, as well.

Mike S.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 05:38 PM
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Pook's Avatar
Bolton,England
Joined May 2003
1,419 Posts
Mike,

Why a tractor setup ? Or do you just want to be diffrent

Piers
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 05:49 PM
Striving to Rip the Bring
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San Diego, socal, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, the Orion arm, Milky way, Universe
Joined Apr 2003
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I dunno why he wants it. but it improves low-speed control response.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 06:50 PM
zagnutz fiend
stirlingnut's Avatar
tulsa,ok
Joined Jul 2004
1,426 Posts
tractor zagnutz

flies nice and slow
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 07:05 PM
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Near Austin
Joined Dec 2001
5,393 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mad mike
CTF,

I'd have directed this question straight to YOU, but I'm more than a little embarrassed because I've had most of the parts cut out for the Zagnutz from your old web site, along with the PALS pdf, but got distracted, fell off the wagon, and didn't get any of it built!
That's OK, you can get back to your Nutz anytime and it's a good thing! And since you ASKED, I guess I can give you my opinion!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad mike
But I've got a little time now to build the 'Nutz and get used to how it flies, so I can get started learning a little about AP.
I would heartily recommend that you build yourself a "trainer" Nutz and remove all fear of flying a wing. They are tough, durable, and fun to fly - but when you start putting your precious 3700 in the air, you want to know EVERYTHING you can about the airframe you ask to fly it. Regardless of whether it's a wing or a conventional aircraft!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad mike
I've read a number of your post on the flying wing for AP and have decided that I want to try this, but I'm sure I'll be wanting other types of platforms, as well. (Well, maybe.)
I've explored "other types" too - more than I care to count. I will even admit to trying a Slow Stick. It made me believe that there are much braver men than me out there flying around with LOTS of money attached to an aluminum tube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad mike
To get started, I'm working on the wife to let me order the Nikon 3700 before the rebate offer expires!
Excellent choice ... IMHO.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad mike
I have a new 8 ch Tx on order, thinking the extra chanels could come in handy for a tilt & pan camera mount.
Another good move!

And in my opinion, I don't think you will be disappointed with your Nutz. You won't find a more versatile aircraft that will not only fly well in a broad range of conditions, but can protect your equipment while doing it out there on the ragged edge. Much better than any of the other possibilities out there right now.


You asked!

CTF
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 07:45 PM
I crash, therefore I FLY!
mad mike's Avatar
Spring Hill, FL
Joined Feb 2003
1,489 Posts
Why a tractor? For me, two reasons.

One, as has been stated, the low-speed handling. I intend to use the wing as a camera-carrier, and I'll have to learn to put down in some tight spaces. Also, I can imagine taking pictures without stopping the motor at times and that brings me to the second reason, sound.

Some like the sound that a pusher prop makes when mounted close to the TE of the wing. I'm one of those who do NOT like it. But sound is "vibration" and I suspect that it would not be a good thing to have any more than a minimum being transmitted to the camera when taking pictures.

Also, some of my chosen sites are quite serene and bringing in a noisy aircraft would be almost sacrilegious.

Mike S.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 07:54 PM
I crash, therefore I FLY!
mad mike's Avatar
Spring Hill, FL
Joined Feb 2003
1,489 Posts
CTF,

Yes, I asked and thank you *very* much for stepping up and getting involved!

I'm going to put those cut parts to work and build the Zagnutz. I think I'll go ahead and start with a tractor version, but I suppose I could stick to the plan as you designed it and convert it later.

However, from what I'ver read so far, I should be able to make it a tractor from the get-go and learn to fly the wing and discover how that differs from my other models.

I do have a pair of GWS motor/gbx's to play with, I'll probably save the brushless for later on. How about a 350c or a 400 (forgot if it's a c, d, or whatever.)?

But I'm sure you are right about one thing in particular. . .

Build and fly the wing first, *then* think about putting the camera on board!

Mike S.
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Old Mar 09, 2005, 10:51 PM
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Near Austin
Joined Dec 2001
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Gotta agree, the tractor was MUCH quieter and in many ways had better handling. The only drawback was that first thing that hit the ground was one of the things that shouldn't.

One of the first "heavy haulers" we tested was a ZN tractor wing using a SP400 with a gearbox that surprised us all at the amount of weight it would carry. That was almost three years ago. We kind of succumbed to the paradigm that a wing should be a pusher - and the pusher kind of fit in as we switched from stills to video looking out the front.

The great thing about the ZN design is you can experiment with many different ways of pushing/pulling/launching/flying/landing/crashing and not break the bank. That was the intent of the project.

So I'd say "Go for it" on the tractor and as always.... keep us posted on your progress!

CTF
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Old Mar 10, 2005, 03:58 AM
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Bolton,England
Joined May 2003
1,419 Posts
I agree on most flying wings the noise the prop makes is less than pleasant - you should look at the Unicorn though it gets round the problem quite nicley & a folding prop does the rest.

Piers
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Old Mar 10, 2005, 09:44 AM
I crash, therefore I FLY!
mad mike's Avatar
Spring Hill, FL
Joined Feb 2003
1,489 Posts
Pook,

I've only looked at "off-the-shelf" models to get ideas. I'm one of those dinosaurs that would much rather build than buy. But I will certainly take a look at it.

CTF,

OK, build and fly the ZN as a tractor "wing trainer," leave the camera on the ground, for now. (ZN-T)

When I first started flying RC, I learned to take a bag full of props with me to the field. (The T-52 had no landing gear.) After turning it into my T-52A (ailerons,) I got much better at keeping the prop out of the dirt.

I do like the idea of a forward-looking camera, especially in a rotating pod that can go from straight ahead to straight down, and also up away from harm in a landing configuration. So to that end, I can experiment with finding a good combination of scalloping the TE and getting the prop a bit further aft to reduce the noise and vibration.

I figure doing both would keep me from getting too extream using just one method.

And you are right, the ZN is perfect for that kind of thing, it's "just foam." It lends itself well to messing about with new (or new to me) ideas.

Of course I'll post my trials and tribulations. I kind of compulsive about that.

Mike S.
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