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Old Aug 29, 2013, 05:09 PM
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How do people in the US get away with commercial operation?

I don't get how some companies in the US are so brazen about their violation of the rules and regulations. While most of us sit here patiently waiting for the FAA to approve the commercial use of drones, we have companies like Drone Dudes (http://www.dronedudes.com/), who just go around flying anyways. Its hurting the whole hobby to have people flying illegally like this. It makes it harder for those of us who simply want to wait and follow the law when we can have accidents and other incidents caused by people operating illegally. If you see anyone operating like this, I urge you to show them what the regulations are, and if they don't comply, then to report them to the FAA. I know it sounds harsh, but I truly believe that's the best thing we can do right now.

EDIT: I realize that this first post seems a bit harsh, and I apologize for that, I was a bit annoyed when I wrote it.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 05:45 PM
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And I'm sure you've never exceed the speed limit while driving...
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 05:50 PM
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And I'm sure you've never exceed the speed limit while driving...
or always used a crosswalk
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sodaant View Post
I don't get how some companies in the US are so brazen about their violation of the rules and regulations. While most of us sit here patiently waiting for the FAA to approve the commercial use of drones, we have companies like Drone Dudes (http://www.dronedudes.com/), who just go around flying anyways. Its hurting the whole hobby to have people flying illegally like this. It makes it harder for those of us who simply want to wait and follow the law when we can have accidents and other incidents caused by people operating illegally. If you see anyone operating like this, I urge you to show them what the regulations are, and if they don't comply, then to report them to the FAA. I know it sounds harsh, but I truly believe that's the best thing we can do right now.
In my opinion these guys are not hurting the hobby. It's the FAA and people who watches the new about DRONE's that's going to effect the hobby. If these guys are making money I'm sure they are paying Taxes right. On the other hand I don't see how having a commercial license to fly these thing can make things any safer. People will be people and if care if not taken something will happen.

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And I'm sure you've never exceed the speed limit while driving...
Speeding is not illegal unless you get caught lol just kidding there, but I am sure everyone here exceeds the speed limit everyday. Or should I say some people sometimes drive much slower than the limit and that should be illegal too
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 06:53 PM
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It is only illegal for people flying in the NAS. The FAA is chartered with regulating the National Airspace System. If you would like an understanding of the legal roots to the FAA's charter please read and understand the majority opinion of Causby vs US (USSC 1946)

Calling the Feds on your flying friends while you wait for the FAA seems unnecessary. Your hobby is not affected; thanks to H.R. 658, a federal law protecting model aviation. So you're OK and you don't need to "out" your fellow Americans.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 07:38 PM
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 07:46 PM
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Honestly, if youre waiting for the FAA to let you fly legally youre probably going to end up disappointed. When the rules do come out for commercial UAV use the requirements to get certified are probably going to be so onerous that youll need be a major company, or buy your aircraft from a major company to get a certificate. I say if you can make money now, do it before it becomes a big deal.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by epyonxero View Post
Honestly, if youre waiting for the FAA to let you fly legally youre probably going to end up disappointed. When the rules do come out for commercial UAV use the requirements to get certified are probably going to be so onerous that youll need be a major company, or buy your aircraft from a major company to get a certificate. I say if you can make money now, do it before it becomes a big deal.
That's right. The chance that anybody without a commercial pilot license will be able to fly a non-certified aircraft for hire is exactly zero.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 08:53 PM
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United States, WA, Seattle
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Originally Posted by workshop View Post
It is only illegal for people flying in the NAS. The FAA is chartered with regulating the National Airspace System. If you would like an understanding of the legal roots to the FAA's charter please read and understand the majority opinion of Causby vs US (USSC 1946)

Calling the Feds on your flying friends while you wait for the FAA seems unnecessary. Your hobby is not affected; thanks to H.R. 658, a federal law protecting model aviation. So you're OK and you don't need to "out" your fellow Americans.
This is completely incorrect. First, you're reading Causby completely wrong. It deals with saying that you do not own your property "up to the heavens" and that the government can be held liable for property damage if it flies extremely low, but it doesn't mean that the government can't regulate any and all airplanes, because it can, in fact, do so.

Your reading of HR 658 is also incorrect. Allow me to quote from the text itself:

c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model
aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating
the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.

Obviously a commercial flight would violate section 3, thus making the argument moot. Model aircraft protections are fine and dandy, but if what you're flying isn't classified as one, all those regulations go out the window.


Quote:
Originally Posted by epyonxero View Post
Honestly, if youre waiting for the FAA to let you fly legally youre probably going to end up disappointed. When the rules do come out for commercial UAV use the requirements to get certified are probably going to be so onerous that youll need be a major company, or buy your aircraft from a major company to get a certificate. I say if you can make money now, do it before it becomes a big deal.
Its a bit wishy washy now. I agree that you're unlikely to be caught if you're doing a small scale operation, like one or two aircraft, one person, and try and keep it under the radar. My point was more towards examples like I linked in the OP, where they have a team of eight people, probably $15,000+ just in flight equipment, $25,000 in camera equipment, and their own van which has their logo on the side. When you have entire businesses that large flaunting the rules, its bad for everyone. Crashes and even injuries are a very real possibility, and if they have one while they're on a commercial shoot, the consequences for this hobby aren't very good.

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Originally Posted by TonyTypeS View Post
In my opinion these guys are not hurting the hobby. It's the FAA and people who watches the new about DRONE's that's going to effect the hobby. If these guys are making money I'm sure they are paying Taxes right. On the other hand I don't see how having a commercial license to fly these thing can make things any safer. People will be people and if care if not taken something will happen.


Speeding is not illegal unless you get caught lol just kidding there, but I am sure everyone here exceeds the speed limit everyday. Or should I say some people sometimes drive much slower than the limit and that should be illegal too
I agree the FAA isn't really doing the best job creating new regulations here, but openly flaunting their rules just opens the door for worse things to happen, including tightening rules that are already here.

I don't think speeding is a good analogy here. Maybe if we're talking about someone whose only business use of drones is helping a friend with a photoshoot for a few bucks, or something like that. Further, the FAA is perfectly willing to send both cease and desist letters, and give people large fines if they don't comply.

On the subject of commercial licenses, I disagree to a point. I think that requiring basic education first, like some sort of 2-3 hour class, isn't a bad idea. A lot of people simply buy one of them for use, and have no idea what the proper safety procedures and best practices are. I can see being required to do something like that before being allowed to operate commercially, along with showing basic control to a certified instructor. I don't think that's a very big barrier, yet it can prevent quite a lot of accidents that WILL happen in the future.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 09:03 PM
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I'm all for commercial licensing as well.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 09:27 PM
Tesla's Workshop
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This is completely incorrect. First, you're reading Causby completely wrong. It deals with saying that you do not own your property "up to the heavens" and that the government can be held liable for property damage if it flies extremely low, but it doesn't mean that the government can't regulate any and all airplanes, because it can, in fact, do so.

Your reading of HR 658 is also incorrect. Allow me to quote from the text itself:

c) MODEL AIRCRAFT DEFINED.—In this section, the term ‘‘model
aircraft’’ means an unmanned aircraft that is—
(1) capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere;
(2) flown within visual line of sight of the person operating
the aircraft; and
(3) flown for hobby or recreational purposes.
Um... OK I never considered constitutional law so black and white as to allow someone to claim an individual's reading as "wrong". Please read further into the text and reflect a bit before such declarative statements.

Um... I wrote that HR 658 supports model aviation... Why so quick to judge?
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by workshop View Post
Um... OK I never considered constitutional law so black and white as to allow someone to claim an individual's reading as "wrong". Please read further into the text and reflect a bit before such declarative statements.

Um... I wrote that HR 658 supports model aviation... Why so quick to judge?
Well, I said it wrong simply because your premise was pretty much completely different from what they actually said. I agree there's a lot of leeway in how to interpret certain parts of supreme court opinions, but they didn't say what you mentioned in any way.


I read what you said about HR 658 wrong, and I apologize for that. I thought you said that it protected commercial operators. However, I disagree that just because there is currently a law on the books means that the hobby is safe. The hobby is only as safe as we make it. If there are even one or two high profile accidents, hobby or not, congress won't hesitate to at least introduce more restrictive legislation.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 10:05 PM
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sodaant why do you want to be so quick to allow someone thousands of miles away from you that has never even see one of our hobby toys and let them tell you whats right,wrong safe and not legal...you are a perfect example of why our freedom diminishes every single day...Government was not created to dictate every aspect of our lives and yet your soo willing to let them do so.. Now I respect what government was designed to stand for but if you can sit here today and tell me that where we have come and where we are heading with someone looking over your shoulder telling you what do to 24/7 is what you want....Well then your really not worth any more of my time.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 10:34 PM
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sodaant why do you want to be so quick to allow someone thousands of miles away from you that has never even see one of our hobby toys and let them tell you whats right,wrong safe and not legal...you are a perfect example of why our freedom diminishes every single day...Government was not created to dictate every aspect of our lives and yet your soo willing to let them do so.. Now I respect what government was designed to stand for but if you can sit here today and tell me that where we have come and where we are heading with someone looking over your shoulder telling you what do to 24/7 is what you want....Well then your really not worth any more of my time.
I don't want that. I wish that there wasn an easier way to do this, but there simply isn't. Disliking the current situation won't change anything, and complaining about the government won't either. Believe it or not though, your input can change how the policy is made. If you're at all concerned, you should submit comments or suggestions to the FAA, and try your damned best to get them to adopt rules that make most people happy.

To some extent, our hobby DOES need regulation if its being used for commercial purposes. People are going around with 15 lb octocopters and flying them sometimes in dangerous situations, the sooner we have sensible regulations to protect those that DO care about safety, the better.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 10:43 PM
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My answer to this question is its just like dispensary operations CA and CO etc

As soon as someone doesn't want you open, they can affect it. In the meantime enjoy your luck, that's the full answer.

I hold no judgment for dispensaries, faa $ violators, another mans business is not a care. I'm flying in the scrub brushes trying for my distance goals and nobody cares. No ruling will stop that. Where i fly is too desolate to regard...they are risking fines not me. i never bought into the fact that our government wants to strip everything from us, I'm against conspiracy theories all the way. Its my opinion if restrictive legislature is passed, some other administration will undo it, and vice versa.

Either way its sliced, i ain't stopping fpv and neither is about 2 million other dudes (and a gal apparently )

The sheer numbers, the inability to stop flights all up the nas as this tech gets more simplified, and the income figures guarantee to me a life long pursuit of long range harmless fun science fpv. End rnt
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