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Old Feb 25, 2002, 07:35 PM
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Mission Viejo, California
Joined Jan 2002
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Speed 280 choices

Given the amount of money and the choices in a speed 280 powerplant, what would one buy? The choices are now most beguiling and befuddling (sp?).

The GWS EPS-100C (CS) from GWS for $10.00?

The Great Planes/HobLob S-280/T-280 motor and GD-280 BB gearbox for $35.00/$45.00?

Or go to town and get the S-300 powerplant from MTM (About $55.00-$60.00?

For the extra dollars, does one get all that much extra in longevity, duration, smoothness, bang-for-the-buck?

Answers please -- O enlightened ones :-)

(Sorry if this is sounding like a nebulus 'meaning of life' question. After 45, the questions just keep coming -- don't they...)
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Old Feb 25, 2002, 10:37 PM
Old Desert Rat
Arizona Chuck's Avatar
Rimrock AZ. USA
Joined Mar 2000
1,113 Posts
45?? your just a baby.
My favorite 280 motors are the M100 and the EPS 100c, you can't beat the price of the EPS. You can push both to 5 maybe 6 amps but I like 3 1/2 amps with a 8/300 NiMH battery. There are 280 that you can push to 10 amps but then you need bigger batteries and you end up in the power chase.
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 12:04 AM
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Mission Viejo, California
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Thanks AZ Chuck,

EPS it is then.

And I'll get the 8/300 mAh packs to run these. How can I go wrong at 10 bucks for the whole thing :-)
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 08:22 AM
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Stratford Sikorsky, Connecticut, United States
Joined Dec 2001
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micro_
In my experience, here is what I have found.
Stay away from a graupner 280 this is a dog of a motor. I don't even know why they offer this with so many models...most of them get replaced after the first flight because of the lack of power.... There is no power output whatsoever. For about $9 dollars you can get a s300, 6v and get equal numbers to a s400 class motor if geared and propped correctly plus it's more efficient
I have also heard that the goldmine 4046 motors generate equal performance and can be pushed over 10A. And if you fry it they only cost a buck.
Killer
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 09:34 AM
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oakdale, ny, usa
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The 4046 needs much bigger gears than the 280 or 300 otherwise it draws too much current.
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 09:39 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Stamford, CT
Joined Oct 2000
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Hey Micro

Do some searching on these boards. You're actually talking about very different animals.

The plain Speed 280 is a woof as noted above. It's been used all over the place because it's cheap and widely available. Only case where it makes much sense- on an 8 cell 300 NiMH pack, where you need a little extra oomph over the smaller GWS motor.

The next 4 choices are (and all work well on 8 cell 720 NiMH packs)

Speed 300- cheap and nasty, but works well in an MP Jet Gearbox- still relatively cheap at less than $30 or you can try the GWS at half this price. Will happily fly a 19 oz. airplane.

Johnson 250- nicely done as the M-100- not quite as much guts as the Speed 300, not as durable, not as heavy- similar price at $25. At its heart though is another cheap and nasty motor. Happily flies a 14 oz airplane.

Astro 010 brushless- Similar power to Speed 300 (needs 10 cells) looong flights- bulletproof. Add in the cost of speed controls for the other motors for a better comparison.


Sam
MTM S-300- Actually a Speed 280 BB (which handles more watts than a Speed 300 if needed, i.e. you can go to an 8 cell nicad pack without burning the motor out.) Will also work fine on an 8 cell 720 NiMH pack, just a touch less power and more weight than the Speed 300. Will run forever used this way. Gearbox beautifully done- everything replaceable.

Note- confusing nomenclature- Speed 280 and Speed 280BB are extremely different animals. You're not the first person to be tripped up. Hope this helps.

P.S. this is a first hand comparison. The only thing I haven't yet flown is the Astro 010 geared.

Sam
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 10:18 AM
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Kansas City, MO
Joined Jan 2000
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I've been test flying these motors as well in my Radical Edge and and And_Now. I did some testing with the watt meter but the flying is really the test for me. The speed 280 as used on the IFO from Dan Kreigh is not bad on 11 (yes 11) 300-nimh cells. 4:1 gearing. Good vertical and power and will hover the IFO. Flights are 5 or 6 minutes. this should fry the motor but the 280 seems to take it. I 've got 50 or so flights on this combo. My favorite ,I think, now is the GWS 370 drive for 18.00. I adveace the timing 1/8 inch and use 8 x 700 maxell nimh cells or 720 sanyo cells. I have been using the "A" drive geared 3.75:1 and an 8 x6 prop or a 9 x 4.7. I get 10 to 12 min flights wiht this combo and very aggressive aerobatics on a 11 oz airframe. I am trying the Simprop 300 motor in the GWS gearbox also but I don't expect it to be much better than the GWS 300 motor. I like this combo. Just my .02
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 10:34 AM
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Mackay Queensland Australia
Joined Sep 2001
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280BB and speed 300 motors are not 280 class motors. They are a similar size but that's where the similarity ends. They pull twice the amps of a regular 280 needing a bigger ESC and are best taken advantage of with 600AE nicads.

A regular speed 280 has it's uses in 10oz or similar class planes. My Mini Max will very nearly go vertical on a Graupner speed 280.
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 10:40 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
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My experience is similar to VonBarons on the minimax. I like my Guapner 280 in my Minimax. I've hated it everywhere else.

I'm going to try one geared a little higher on my TM spinning a 9x6 instead of that 7.5x7 prop and I'll report back.
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 10:54 AM
jah
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North Georgia
Joined Nov 2001
1,851 Posts
speed 280bb

here is some data I gathered on the speed 280bb:

4:1 gbx 8X6 graupner camslim prop 8X500AR battery pack
drew 8.9 amps, put out 71 watts, turned the prop at 4950 RPM
thrust is around 400 grams

5:1 gbx 9X6 APC thin electric prop 8X600AE
drew 7.3 amps 75 watts, and turned at 5100 RPM
thrust is around 430 grams

The thrust measurements are suspect, because the way I measure the numbers bounce around. I put the plane on the scale, the MT (with 4:1gbx) nose down, the SU31(5:1gbx) nose up. Then note the weight and then run up to full power. The planes jump, and torque around so makes it tough.

This is for the marchibi speed 280bb, which is available for $19.99 at tower hobbies. Here is the link:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...P?Q=1&I=LXAHK6
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 11:05 AM
Balsa Flies Better!
Stamford, CT
Joined Oct 2000
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Kit

I've gone similar routes- direct drive 280s on little props, 7 oz airplanes. If you don't need a little prop (which actually may work well in a Tipsy for glide mode) then the Johnson 250 in one of its guises, i.e. EMPS MG1, M 100, Johnson 4046 et al will weigh less than the 280, probably even with gearbox if some care is taken, swing a larger more efficient prop on the same batteries, and give you power to spare. Long flights are also in the cards as well. I too started with Speed 280s, but the Johnson is a more versatile motor, even if it's not as pretty to look at.

The interesting approach is what's in the IFO, lots of cells (what speed controls are you guys using?) and relatively tall gearing. However, IFOs don't really translate that well to more conventional aircraft, since the stall speed is so low.

Sam
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 11:21 AM
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Mission Viejo, California
Joined Jan 2002
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Speed 280 choices

Guys,

Thanks for pitching in with all your inputs.

Very thoughtful advice. Lot of stuff I did not know.

Killerair thanks for the warning. And G4046's are a bargain!

Megowcoupe, thanks for the lengthy but wonderful explanation.

I also found a nice 280 BB gearbox making tutorial from aluminum tubes, 2X5 BB's and a sheet of circuitboard -- if anyone's interested. It's at,

http://home.mweb.co.za/sk/skylar/S280/S280.htm

I know you can buy one cheap but this way it's more fun. Here's a small diagram.
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 12:50 PM
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Space Coast
Joined Oct 2000
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Jerry, here's some data I got on the SimProp 300 motor. With a 5:1 MJ box, a GWS 8x6 prop, and an 8x720NiMH pack, it spun up to 5800 rpm and drew 5.3A. I think that's quite a bit faster than the GWS300 turned up as I recall. I lose some energy in my test setup wiring so actual plane performance should be better.
hoppy
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 01:19 PM
Balsa Flies Better!
Stamford, CT
Joined Oct 2000
6,719 Posts
Hoppy

I've seen 6000 rpm on an 8 x 3.8 inch APC slow flyer prop out of a Speed 300, MJ 5:1 BB box on 8 cell 720s. (probably around 6 amps if I recall.) I'm using a Whattmeter but in most cases, I haven't seen an rpm drop with it in the circuit. I suspect there's a lot of variability in these motors, and differences of 100-200 rpm could be due to prop design, battery temp. etc in addition to variability in mfg.

Sam
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Old Feb 26, 2002, 04:09 PM
jah
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North Georgia
Joined Nov 2001
1,851 Posts
Thanks hoppy, is the simprop 300 the motor that called the Acro350 buy simprop. Thats the same motor I tested, but I made a mistake in the post. Pulled the motor out and its a "sagami" branded. I orginally got one with my Simprop SU31 from hobby lobby. It had a simprop label "acro speed 280bb" . Another ezoner (I think it was bleriot) pointed out that it was the same motor and posted the tower hobby link. Neither gearbox I used has ball bearings, but I have a MP Jet 5:1 with BBs.
Later
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