IMHO... when someone like Paul says, "God's spirit is speaking to me", ... the prudent thing to do is become very skeptical.

With all do respect, I have no doubt people conjure things in their minds and think and believe 0they have the holy spirit. Thinking and believing don't make it so.

The human mind is an interesting thing. An example from my realm. My wife was taking chemo, she'd smile and say, your not going to believe what I'm seeing and describe the latest vision of flowers on the ceilings in 3D or whatever it happened to be this time. She'd laugh about it, it was funny to her because the visions were as real as life itself... except she new there weren't any frigging flowers on the ceiling at least in 3D.

Another, my wife woke me and started scolded me for flirting with another woman... whoa I cried, I'm not responsible for what I do in your dreams.

The human mind is capable of getting off the tracks at times and associating those off track moments as reality is nuts.

Originally Posted by LcJ

We each make our own decisions of Faith and of who we follow, as for me, "I have decided to follow Jesus." (title of an old hymn)

I'm happy that you find value in your faith. Can you be happy that I don't?

Originally Posted by AA5BY

I'm happy that you find value in your faith. Can you be happy that I don't?

If I were, I would not believe that Jesus is Who He said He was. But I will never beat you personally over the head with it. But you know were to come if I can ever help.

Originally Posted by LcJ

If I were, I would not believe that Jesus is Who He said He was. But I will never beat you personally over the head with it. But you know were to come if I can ever help.

Lyle,

That to me is the real answer!

To allow someone their own path, as they want - and to be ready to help also if they want!

Good man!

Originally Posted by LcJ

If I were, I would not believe that Jesus is Who He said He was. But I will never beat you personally over the head with it. But you know were to come if I can ever help.

It seems to me that may be an indicator about this stress question.... I'm happy that LcJ has a faith that he finds value in but in turn, he can't be happy that I find value in not having a faith.

This insight was first made known to me about a year ago when a good friend challenged me about the stress that my lack of belief causes on him and as he put it, it must do also for your family.

Another friend has been forwarding me things to try to rekindle a faith. The last was about the discovery of skeletal remains of giants to prove the veracity of scripture. When I replied with the snopes debunk... his reply, "Man, I hate it when I do that [get caught]."

Remember that Jefferson removed or cut out a large chunk of the new testament. He also denied many basic tenets of Christianity. Much like the apostasy churches in existance today.

Originally Posted by steelfaith1

I know Christ, Jefferson didn't....that gives me the upper hand. Having Faith means believing what God wrote in the Bible. You can't please Him without Faith.

Christ's death and resurrection was hidden from the disciples...to be revealed later.
Their writings, even though written to the Jews living under the Law, were still inspired by God the Holy Spirit.

Under the old testament ecomomy, the Hebrew children received many blessings. When they obeyed He blessed them. When they whored out after false gods, He removed them from the Promised Land.....so, it was a 2 way street. The last time they were kicked off their land was due to their involvement in the death of Christ. "Let His blood be upon us and our children" was what they told Him. Hence they suffered for that move for over 2000 years.

Jewish kosher laws have no effect on the salvation of the Jews today. Abstaining from bacon never got anybody into heaven in this Age of Grace. For the past 2000 years, for Jew and Gentile alike, salvation is based on your Faith in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

It is amazing that people will base a bigotry on a dubious text of scripture. No scholar believes the writing of Matthew was done by an eye witness of any trial of Christ so words of the crowd could not be first hand so to base a bigotry on such a text is silly beyond comprehension. Scholars are also in general agreement that there was no sermon on the mount... so Matthew takes literary license as it were.... and likely did so again in those words.

Originally Posted by AA5BY

It is amazing that people will base a bigotry on a dubious text of scripture. No scholar believes the writing of Matthew was done by an eye witness of any trial of Christ so words of the crowd could not be first hand so to base a bigotry on such a text is silly beyond comprehension. Scholars are also in general agreement that there was no sermon on the mount... so Matthew takes literary license as it were.... and likely did so again in those words.

if that is the case, then what else could be considered "literary license"?
if it's not true then how could one believe anything that is written in the Bible?

Originally Posted by sgtdirt

if that is the case, then what else could be considered "literary license"?
if it's not true then how could one believe anything that is written in the Bible?

Prezacktly!

Originally Posted by sgtdirt

if that is the case, then what else could be considered "literary license"?
if it's not true then how could one believe anything that is written in the Bible?

The idea that God wrote the bible is pervasive but untrue. The bible is a collection of literary works that were voted on by a group of Catholic bishops as to whether they were deemed inspired or not. Consequently, it is up to each to discern whether a writing is inspired or not, unless one wants to simply accept the Catholic bishops opinions.

Interestingly, if each of us tried to discern inspired... then we'd be subject to self indulgence as is done by tuning the TV to our favorite news commentaries and getting our perspective reinforced.

The only books of the bible which are accepted as divine by all Jews and all varieties of Christians are the first five books of the Old Testament: the Pentateuch.

But I wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder who -- who wrote the Book Of Love?

Originally Posted by AA5BY

The only books of the bible which are accepted as divine by all Jews and all varieties of Christians are the first five books of the Old Testament: the Pentateuch.

how could that be? i have read in these forums that the OT is for reference only.

Originally Posted by Bob HSG

But I wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder who -- who wrote the Book Of Love?

I gotta believe it was written in the mentality of living things. I've a Sheltie dog and will swear that this dog grasp the concept of love. She knows how to give it and receive it and I'm betting she doesn't know a lick about any religion.

Originally Posted by Bob HSG

But I wonder, wonder, wonder, wonder who -- who wrote the Book Of Love?

The Monotones

my lab is the same way. she sure knows how to get me to pet and scratch her.

Originally Posted by sgtdirt

how could that be? i have read in these forums that the OT is for reference only.

Because all the rest are disputed by some group or another.