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Old Dec 17, 2014, 11:33 AM
JJL
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Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
It might be.... though you will need to use less than 100% throttle or use governor mode. With 100% throttle, you might see up to HS3140 at the start of the pack in the hover and about HS2800 at the end. (Mr Mel HS calculator) I prefer pottering around at about HS2400 governed with my 500, which uses the HK3126 1600kv motor and a 13t pinion. Or at least I did until I crashed and broke the frames! I've yet to find replacement frames....


The Align manual cautions against running more than HS2650 - with the tail rotor being the limiting factor. Align brought out the 500 Pro, which has a lower geared tail rotor, so it can run at higher headspeeds.


Those Hitec 225's might fit without spacers - the width across the frames on the 500 is just under 42mm, so the servo needs to be no more than 21mm under the mounting lug, or you will need spacers. The 225 is OK, but it's analog. I prefer the HK 752MG which is digital, and cheaper, faster, and with more torque. You don't need digital servos, but if you converted the 500 to FBL, digitals would work much better, and the 752's are durable. Mine have withstood many crashes without stripping gears or breaking cases, and they are a perfect fit in the 500 frame. The HK 732MG works great on the tail - you can set it to 1520us 333Hz.
Thank you for your reply 2Doggs, sorry to hear about your crash and I hope you can find a replacement frame soon enough.

Unfortunately I already have the Typhoon motor with a 12T pinion and since I will not be running governor mode, I will try to control the RPM using my throttle pitch and an optical tachometer that I bought from HK a while back. I will set the throttle to 80 % max for my first flight and take it from there, the target being 2500 to 2600 rpms with a full battery.

Was just checking the specs on the servos you recommended and they have really good specs unfortunately they are out of stock at the moment. Another option are the tgy 930s, they seem to have nice reviews and will fit the 500 gt frame with no spacers.

For the tail I have a Futaba s9257 and a 9650 laying around so I figured on using one of those , will have to get a step-down in case I decide use the S9257 and run on 6V.

I really appreciate your input, thank you !!

Kind regards,

JJL
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Old Dec 17, 2014, 12:12 PM
JJL
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Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Hi JJL
As i understand it, the Typhoon motor is understated on Kv. The actual figure is higher. Might overspeed things.
If you haven't bought your motor yet, could I recommend this one

http://gogo-rc.com/store/index.php?r...roduct_id=1029

Had one on my 500 for about 3 years now, been faultless.

Not sure there is an optimal h/s, depends on your flying style. I run a 12t pinion on mine, which gives a h/s around 2700, which I find ideal.
Maybe start from there and adjust to taste.

Just measured mine, HS225 will need spacers, so also longer screws. Agree with 2Doggs, they are good servos, but there are others which will suit you better.
Yet to try 732's so can't comment. I have these on mine since I built it

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...?strSearch=930

Working fine in both FB and FBL form. Might be a little slow for the tail but fine for cyclics.

Hope this helps

BL
Hey Borderlord, you are totally correct on the Typhoon, this motor is more like a 1900 Kv than the 1800 they mention in the specs. I'm still trying to find an 11T pinion for this motor but in the meantime I will use the 12T and control the RPM's using the throttle pitch.

I agree with you in regards to the hobbymate motor, I have one on one of my 450's and so far it has been great, have been running in over 200 flights and never had any problems..I do oil the bearings with either tri-flow or scorpion oil before I put the heli away for the day..but it has been an excellent little motor so far. Unfortunately I already have the Typhoon so have to make due.

After checking out the MG930s I will order 4 (1 as a spare) since they have nice specs and good reviews and most importantly, they are a perfect fit on the 500gt.
One question, can I use the arms that comes with the servo? also, can you please tell me if the spline is compatible with Futaba? have tons of futaba servo arms.

On a final note, I'm seriously thinking of replacing the tail unit on the 500gt for all metal, been seeing some nice tarot options; at the very least will replace tail rotor holder with align H50034T just to be on the safe side.

If you have any other parts that you consider should be replaced (besides main gears, main and feathering shaft) please let me know.

Finally, thank you for taking the time to help, much appreciated.

JJL-
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Old Dec 17, 2014, 01:16 PM
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Tarot gears and shafts OK

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Originally Posted by JJL View Post
On a final note, I'm seriously thinking of replacing the tail unit on the 500gt for all metal, been seeing some nice tarot options; at the very least will replace tail rotor holder with align H50034T just to be on the safe side.
I had terrible trouble with the tail binding on my HK500 TT FBL (made by Garrt) I ended up replacing both the tail rotor and the slider with Tarot parts, but the tail linkage was still a lot sloppier than I liked. I also hated the noisy and fragile TT, and decided to convert to belt drive, using a Tarot boom block and Align plastic tail gearbox, slider and tail rotor. The Align plastic tail has way less slop than the Garrt or Tarot metal one, and is lighter into the bargain. The Align slider bush (which is not compatible with clone sliders which use a different thread) is a much snugger fit on the tail rotor shaft. Since I prefer to run a lower (quieter) headspeed of around 2400 - 2600, I have no concerns about the lack of thrust bearings in the Align tail. Most of the metal tails, such as the Garrt and Tarot ones, however, just use a thrust bearing in place of the outer radial bearing.

I much prefer the Align plastic canopy canopy mounts to the cheap metal ones that came with my kit. The plastic ones stand up better to crashes, whereas the metal ones bend and strip the threads in the anti-rotation bracket. The Tarot plastic bracket seems much better quality than the Garrt plastic one.

I've been thru lots of maingears - and the Tarot ones, both straight cut and helical, have been fine, much better than clone 450 gears which have built-in wobble and eccentricity. Tarot mainshafts and feathering spindles also seem pretty good, measuring the same diameter as Align shafts and being a lot cheaper, although the Align shafts have a smoother surface finish. If you do find an 11t pinion, I would recommend a Revco "Hard One" - they seem to be a closer fit on the motor shaft and mesh better with the maingear.

I think that Typhoon motor used to be described as being 1600kv, and caused quite a bit of bother in the past with 500's. With all the Typhoons, the cooling fan is reversible. You need to make sure the vanes on the fan trail the rotation direction. In operation, the fan draws air thru the motor. With the vanes set to lead the direction of rotation, the fan is way less efficient. All the Typhoons I've had in 450 sizes have the fan set by default for a top mounted motor install, so I've had to reverse the fan. The photo on the HK site shows the 500 Typhoon having the fan set for a top mounted motor too.
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Old Dec 17, 2014, 07:01 PM
JJL
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Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I had terrible trouble with the tail binding on my HK500 TT FBL (made by Garrt) I ended up replacing both the tail rotor and the slider with Tarot parts, but the tail linkage was still a lot sloppier than I liked. I also hated the noisy and fragile TT, and decided to convert to belt drive, using a Tarot boom block and Align plastic tail gearbox, slider and tail rotor. The Align plastic tail has way less slop than the Garrt or Tarot metal one, and is lighter into the bargain. The Align slider bush (which is not compatible with clone sliders which use a different thread) is a much snugger fit on the tail rotor shaft. Since I prefer to run a lower (quieter) headspeed of around 2400 - 2600, I have no concerns about the lack of thrust bearings in the Align tail. Most of the metal tails, such as the Garrt and Tarot ones, however, just use a thrust bearing in place of the outer radial bearing.
Hummm interesting information, was planning to use the Tarot metal slider along with the Align plastic tail blade holder, also will be replacing the tail arm either with the Align or Tarot metal unit and of course I'm going to use an align tail rotor shaft; just hope everything fits correctly. Currently trying to decide if I should get the ALIGN Metal Tail Rotor Holder H50119B instead of the plastic one specially since I will be running the Typhoon motor with the 12T pinion.

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Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I much prefer the Align plastic canopy canopy mounts to the cheap metal ones that came with my kit. The plastic ones stand up better to crashes, whereas the metal ones bend and strip the threads in the anti-rotation bracket. The Tarot plastic bracket seems much better quality than the Garrt plastic one.
Now that you mention Canopy, that is one thing I surely will be replacing. The canopy that came with my GT is broken like in 3 different places but will probably use it on the maiden just in case. Can't seem to find the Align plastic canopy mounts you mention, in the mean time will use the metal ones that came in the kit. What I will most likely order is a set of metal canopy nuts since I have always wanted to use them on one of my helis and this seems as good as time as any to try them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I've been thru lots of maingears - and the Tarot ones, both straight cut and helical, have been fine, much better than clone 450 gears which have built-in wobble and eccentricity. Tarot mainshafts and feathering spindles also seem pretty good, measuring the same diameter as Align shafts and being a lot cheaper, although the Align shafts have a smoother surface finish. If you do find an 11t pinion, I would recommend a Revco "Hard One" - they seem to be a closer fit on the motor shaft and mesh better with the maingear.
On my 450s the Tarot maingears seem thicker than the Align gear, in this case will probably order Tarot gears depending on my cash flow.

In the other hand, will most likely get some Align main and feathering shafts since the Align screws I fell have better quality than the Tarot.

Also planning to replace both main shaft bearing holders for either the Align AGNH50075 or its Tarot counter part.

Finally, someone suggested to replace both the tail drive gear and the plastic tail boom case and to replace the tail boon case plastic hexagonal bolts with the aluminum hex bolts; also the person suggested that I replace the tail servo holder arms for either metal or to get an Align tail servo mount AGNH50038 that are much sturdier, but the align arms seems to be plastic also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Doggs View Post
I think that Typhoon motor used to be described as being 1600kv, and caused quite a bit of bother in the past with 500's. With all the Typhoons, the cooling fan is reversible. You need to make sure the vanes on the fan trail the rotation direction. In operation, the fan draws air thru the motor. With the vanes set to lead the direction of rotation, the fan is way less efficient. All the Typhoons I've had in 450 sizes have the fan set by default for a top mounted motor install, so I've had to reverse the fan. The photo on the HK site shows the 500 Typhoon having the fan set for a top mounted motor too.
Thank you for pointing this out, didn't know about it. Just finished checking and the fan or fan openings are trailing the rotation of the motor.

2Doggs thank you so much for all your valuable input, really appreciate it .

Kind regards,

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Old Dec 17, 2014, 09:18 PM
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Don't run that Futaba s9257 on 6V it will fry.
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Old Dec 18, 2014, 02:24 PM
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Hi JJL, few thoughts for you.

My 500 GT was an early one made, I believe, by Skya. While these are not known for their quality control, I must have been lucky because I have found very little to change.
When I tried to dismantle the tail to grease the bearings, one of the bolts was glued in so hard that I snapped it trying to undo.
I switched to an Align plastic one and that has been fine ever since. That is the only change I would recommend, and I was forced into it.
Out of interest, in the same deal I got an Align front tail drive gear. Being Align, I switched that as well, and it promptly failed on me.
Re-fitted the original HK one and no problems since.
I guess I am saying that there is no need to change anything unless it has an obvious fault, or use shows up a problem.
As regards h/s, you are right, 11t pinions are hard to find. Revco used to do one, but since they went out of business they are virtually non existent.
Having said that, I have found one company over here (UK) which still shows them in stock.
Would you like me to investigate further?
One answer from the forums is to use 5s instead of 6s. This puts 12t and 13t in the ballpark.
At least gives you some options.
Come back to me on the pinion.

Cheers

BL
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Old Dec 21, 2014, 11:07 AM
JJL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Hi JJL, few thoughts for you.

My 500 GT was an early one made, I believe, by Skya. While these are not known for their quality control, I must have been lucky because I have found very little to change.
When I tried to dismantle the tail to grease the bearings, one of the bolts was glued in so hard that I snapped it trying to undo.
I switched to an Align plastic one and that has been fine ever since. That is the only change I would recommend, and I was forced into it.
Out of interest, in the same deal I got an Align front tail drive gear. Being Align, I switched that as well, and it promptly failed on me.
Re-fitted the original HK one and no problems since.
I guess I am saying that there is no need to change anything unless it has an obvious fault, or use shows up a problem.
As regards h/s, you are right, 11t pinions are hard to find. Revco used to do one, but since they went out of business they are virtually non existent.
Having said that, I have found one company over here (UK) which still shows them in stock.
Would you like me to investigate further?
One answer from the forums is to use 5s instead of 6s. This puts 12t and 13t in the ballpark.
At least gives you some options.
Come back to me on the pinion.

Cheers

BL
Hi Border Lord, please forgive me for taking so long to reply but this has been a hell of a week since I'm taking a few days off work and needed to finish all my pending stuff before I took off.

Thank you for the information regarding the replacement parts cause when I started adding up everything that I wanted to replace plus buying some spare I would have been better off buying an Align 500e ..lol.

As per your recommendation I will order the Align plastic tail blade holder and since the very few hobby shops we have in the island don't carry any heli parts, I will order some replacement parts such as : main and feathering shafts, main gears (perhaps an auto-rotation gear), replacement belt and flybar.

I still need to order the 3 swash servos which most probably be TGY930s and also a hobbymate HB790 tail gyro since I'm not a huge fan of the HK 401, plus I already have 2 hb790s on my 450s and it performs admirably.

Regarding the pinion, first I would like to thank you for your help in locating the pinion but since I already have a 12T Rhino pinion I would like to give that a try first so see how it works out. Most probably will set my throttle curve to 80% or 90% to start out and make adjustments from there. If I don't like how it flies then I most certainly will let you know so you can investigate further on the 11T.

My last option would be to switch to 5S batteries since I already have some 6S and also a bunch of 3S that I can connect is series to get 6S, so the 11T seems to be my second best option if I can't get this to fly to my liking using the 12T.

Btw, can you please tell my if the futaba servo arms fit the tgy930 servos? I have a bunch of those servo arms and would be great if I can use them on the tgy servos.

Ahhh....almost forgot, need to get a 5amp or more BEC...so add one more thing to the shopping list..lol

Take good care and have a great weekend my friend.

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Old Dec 22, 2014, 12:42 PM
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Hi JJL
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Originally Posted by JJL View Post
Hi Border Lord, please forgive me for taking so long to reply but this has been a hell of a week since I'm taking a few days off work and needed to finish all my pending stuff before I took off.JJL-
No problem. We all have to work, even if it gets in the way of playtime

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL View Post
Thank you for the information regarding the replacement parts cause when I started adding up everything that I wanted to replace plus buying some spare I would have been better off buying an Align 500e ..lol.JJL-
Same conclusion I came to. Most clone parts are not as bad as people make out.
Just needs a little care and attention when assembling, and we should be doing that anyway, whatever make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL View Post
As per your recommendation I will order the Align plastic tail blade holder and since the very few hobby shops we have in the island don't carry any heli parts, I will order some replacement parts such as : main and feathering shafts, main gears (perhaps an auto-rotation gear), replacement belt and flybar.JJL-
Good choices. I see Tarot gears being recommended. Yet to try them, but all the other Tarot parts I have are good quality.
May I add a little something. Not tried them myself (got some coming but stuck in Christmas post) but such a simple idea.
http://www.align-trex.co.uk/500-tail...xxt.html?ref=1
These fit inside the tail grips, and give a flat surface for the blades to bear on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL View Post
I still need to order the 3 swash servos which most probably be TGY930s and also a hobbymate HB790 tail gyro since I'm not a huge fan of the HK 401, plus I already have 2 hb790s on my 450s and it performs admirably.JJL-
Another good choice, I really like Hobbymate products. I have one on a (don't laugh) Ikarus Eco8. If it can keep the tail stable on one of those, must be good.
However, another thought.
I have been converting some of my fleet to FBL, which has left me some spare gyros. Of most interest to you, I suspect, would be a Spartan DS760.
If you want one, yours for cost of postage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL View Post
Regarding the pinion, first I would like to thank you for your help in locating the pinion but since I already have a 12T Rhino pinion I would like to give that a try first so see how it works out. Most probably will set my throttle curve to 80% or 90% to start out and make adjustments from there. If I don't like how it flies then I most certainly will let you know so you can investigate further on the 11T.JJL-
Agreed, keep the 11t as an option.
Could I suggest you start at 70% rather than 80%. Speed controllers do not have a linear response, so your 80% might be closer to 95 in the real world.
Besides, less likely to do damage if something decides to fall off on the maiden.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL View Post
My last option would be to switch to 5S batteries since I already have some 6S and also a bunch of 3S that I can connect is series to get 6S, so the 11T seems to be my second best option if I can't get this to fly to my liking using the 12T.JJL-
I started on my 500 with 5s. Flew ok, but I needed more, hence to 6s. If you already have the batteries, that's the way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL View Post
Btw, can you please tell my if the futaba servo arms fit the tgy930 servos? I have a bunch of those servo arms and would be great if I can use them on the tgy servos.JJL-
I have used Futaba arms on mine, so yes, they do fit. Only thing is you might find a slack fit on the splines. If so, cut a piece of thin plastic from an old bag, about 1cm square. hold this over the splines, then push the arm onto it. This will take up all the slack, and make a nice snug fit. Best thing is, once it is moulded to the splines, you can pull the arm off and it will stay in place.
Regarding the arms, if you have them, I used the four arm ones. I use 16.5mm from servo centre to ball centre, and this suits me fine.
Don't cut off any of the arms until you have everything wired up, then you can move them around until you find the ones that best line up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJL View Post
Ahhh....almost forgot, need to get a 5amp or more BEC...so add one more thing to the shopping list..lolJJL-
You haven't mentioned what esc you will be using. If you are still looking, may I recommend this one.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ontroller.html
This already has a 6a bec built in, plenty more than you will need. Also has a superb soft start, which you will find useful later on.
Must admit, I started with a Plush 60a, which only has a 3a bec, but that was enough for my needs.

Hope this is of help, good luck.

BL
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Old Dec 22, 2014, 08:40 PM
JJL
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Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Hi JJL

No problem. We all have to work, even if it gets in the way of playtime
Lol...sucks doesn't it..lol and on Mondays even more so....lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Same conclusion I came to. Most clone parts are not as bad as people make out.
Just needs a little care and attention when assembling, and we should be doing that anyway, whatever make.
I totally agree with you, clone parts are really not that bad and the only thing to keep in mind is that they need a little extra maintenance. Prove of this is my HK 450 GT, it's got well over 250 flights, closer to 300, and the only thing I replaced with Align parts from the start where the main gears, feathering and main shaft; the rest of the replacements where because of the parts wearing out (dampers, some bearings, belts) or because accidents (tail booms, flybars, landing skids and tail rotor shafts). But then again I really enjoy giving maintenance to all my helis and I do it at the end of each flying session and I also do another check before I go to fly.
I have been into RC for over 25 yrs and the first thing I was taught is you go to the field to fly not to repair, you do that at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Good choices. I see Tarot gears being recommended. Yet to try them, but all the other Tarot parts I have are good quality.
May I add a little something. Not tried them myself (got some coming but stuck in Christmas post) but such a simple idea.
http://www.align-trex.co.uk/500-tail...xxt.html?ref=1
These fit inside the tail grips, and give a flat surface for the blades to bear on.
I have used some tarot parts (FBL head, Swash plates, etc) on my 450s and I like them very much, also have a Tarot Sport v3 with a Hobbymate hb790 gyro and it is a great heli.

Actually I was looking for a Tarot 500 kit but unfortunately they have discontinued making them, seems they are more into the quad scene than rc helicopters nowadays and it is a shame since their kits where really good quality and you could find most parts in the US which is a big plus.

Thanks for the tip on the tail blade clips, just found them on the US Align shop and will order them to give them a try, once I get them (about 7 to 10 days after the seller ships) will let you know how they work out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Another good choice, I really like Hobbymate products. I have one on a (don't laugh) Ikarus Eco8. If it can keep the tail stable on one of those, must be good.
However, another thought.
I have been converting some of my fleet to FBL, which has left me some spare gyros. Of most interest to you, I suspect, would be a Spartan DS760.
If you want one, yours for cost of postage.
Ikarus Eco8 man that is classic, don't tell me you are still flying it? that heli should be mounted in a wall in your home and displayed for everyone to see...Took people forever to get it to fly right and that thing had the largest blades I have ever seen on a heli of that size. Lot's of good rc pilots learned on the Eco, specially how to control the tail..lol. Do you still have the original plastic frame or did you replace it with the metal?

Hey thank you for the offer my friend, I'm most definitely interested on the DS since those where great gyros. When the Quark came out a lot of folks replaced the DS760, while it was true that the Quark was a bit easier to setup, it is also true that unless you where into heavy 3D you could not tell the difference, performance wise, between the DS and the Quark, the DS was (or is) that good so heck yes I will take you up on the offer.

Will drop you a private message with my address so you could tell me how much it would cost to have it shipped and I can send you the money via paypal.

In regards to FBL and DFC helis, for some strange reason I still prefer my fly barred helis, sure FBL is easier to work with and less complications mechanical wise, but the feeling of a FBL is so different than a FB. I don't know if it's me but with a FB I feel much more connected to the helicopter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
Agreed, keep the 11t as an option.
Could I suggest you start at 70% rather than 80%. Speed controllers do not have a linear response, so your 80% might be closer to 95 in the real world.
Besides, less likely to do damage if something decides to fall off on the maiden.
Ok, will start out and 70 % and will have someone checking my blade RPM so I can adjust from there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Border Lord View Post
You haven't mentioned what esc you will be using. If you are still looking, may I recommend this one.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ontroller.html
This already has a 6a bec built in, plenty more than you will need. Also has a superb soft start, which you will find useful later on.
Must admit, I started with a Plush 60a, which only has a 3a bec, but that was enough for my needs.

Hope this is of help, good luck.
BL
So far I have 3 yep ESCs on my 450s and I love them, unfortunately and against my better judgement I got a Turnigy Plush 80 amp esc. Since this ESC only has a 3 amp BEC I decided to buy a separate BEC, most probably will get one of these BEC from HK :
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html
Or this one which is a Hobbywing rebranded:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...arehouse_.html

Again, thank you so much for all your advise and help BL, you have really helped me out. Will send PM with my details so you can investigate the cost of the shipping.

Regards,

JJL-
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