New Products Flash Sale
Thread Tools
Old Feb 10, 2015, 04:58 PM
JIMJAM is offline
Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Registered User
JIMJAM's Avatar
Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Joined Feb 2000
2,930 Posts
Discussion
Are my expectaction to high?

When I first put on my Teleporters and flew my first FPV Nano I was blown away! Incredible Then very quickly you notice the picture is blurry,the colors are bad but its still cool. Then you notice the range is about 2 average sized yards away before you start losing signal. But hey,this is entry level about as cheap as it gets so you deal with it.

Jump to today.
I finally got a 250 class quad. My first real machine and not a house toy. It has a TS5823 transmitter, a nice looking camera "unknown" out front and I got a new pair of Dominator goggles. Some nice clover antennas......

But to be honest.... I thought it would be night and day difference betreen the 2 and I am not all that impressed. I had to flip a dip "5" on the trans and only have one channel on my Dominators that works. Its just the picture to me is no better than the $100 Nano camera/antenna setup. In fact, I now know what "jello" is. I have seen over saturated colors. Also the range is no better.
Just like the Nano or 180 there a certain areas that cause static and if I venture a certain distance the signal gets crappy.

Guess what I am trying to say is I think I either had unrealistic expectations from more expensive,larger electronics or the transmitter I am using is not the best for Fatsharks.
JIMJAM is offline Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:08 PM
Daemon is online now
Find More Posts by Daemon
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
30,562 Posts
Yes. Almost everyone's expectations with regard to FPV are too high.

However, why don't you try flying somewhere else?
There are always going to be environments where you may experience
blockage or multipathing which causes poor quality video.
There is never a guarantee that throwing more power or money
at the problem will override the laws of physics.
Daemon is online now Find More Posts by Daemon
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:18 PM
JIMJAM is offline
Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Registered User
JIMJAM's Avatar
Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Joined Feb 2000
2,930 Posts
Watching pro videos that were shot with thousands of $$ in equipment and recorded and not actually what you are going to see through a pair of goggles does not help.

But yeah with all the trees,other houses,power lines in the air and buried. Unseen electronic noise...... I found out during the holidays that my Xmas tree remote that changes the lights caused my Nano to black out. There is a area in my yard that nothing that is nearby that causes static and another causes screen flicker.
JIMJAM is offline Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:26 PM
Daemon is online now
Find More Posts by Daemon
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
30,562 Posts
You're flying on 5.8Ghz which is such a short wavelength that it is either
blocked by, or bounces off virtually every solid object. Picture every
surface around both the aircraft and the ground station as a mirror from
which the signal may reflect, and cause multipath interference
at the receiving antenna. Getting both your ground station and
quad into a more open area will usually help. Sometimes just moving
the ground station a few feet one way or another can change the
reflection angles enough to clear up your video.

These same issues exist on all video frequencies, just to different
degrees, and the signals bounce off different size objects. On 1.3ghz
I get multipath reflections off the rocky faces of mountains, and
high tension power lines and so forth.
Daemon is online now Find More Posts by Daemon
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:30 PM
BCSaltchucker is offline
Find More Posts by BCSaltchucker
fly by night
BCSaltchucker's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
7,286 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMJAM View Post
When I first put on my Teleporters and flew my first FPV Nano I was blown away! Incredible Then very quickly you notice the picture is blurry,the colors are bad but its still cool. Then you notice the range is about 2 average sized yards away before you start losing signal. But hey,this is entry level about as cheap as it gets so you deal with it.

Jump to today.
I finally got a 250 class quad. My first real machine and not a house toy. It has a TS5823 transmitter, a nice looking camera "unknown" out front and I got a new pair of Dominator goggles. Some nice clover antennas......

But to be honest.... I thought it would be night and day difference betreen the 2 and I am not all that impressed. I had to flip a dip "5" on the trans and only have one channel on my Dominators that works. Its just the picture to me is no better than the $100 Nano camera/antenna setup. In fact, I now know what "jello" is. I have seen over saturated colors. Also the range is no better.
Just like the Nano or 180 there a certain areas that cause static and if I venture a certain distance the signal gets crappy.

Guess what I am trying to say is I think I either had unrealistic expectations from more expensive,larger electronics or the transmitter I am using is not the best for Fatsharks.
well first off, you say 'unknown camera' and you get jello

there is the heart of your problem!!! Jello only comes from using CMOS camera - all the CMOS board cams are junk, garbage useless, imho. Even the 'CCD-killer' - they call it that because they are overcompensating for its inadequacies. It was made obsolete 2-3 years ago. I notice hobbyking and Immersion/Fatshark still peddling CMOS cameras, and my flying buddies have them - and they suck! Just as you describe - jello and oversaturated colours. NFG

You must get a good quality known CCD camera. They get zero jello no matter what, so much better image and light handling it is night and day.

And you only need to spend $30-70 for a great CCD too. Look for 'SuperHAD' or 'Effio' for good ones. 2.8mm lens I recommend.

http://www.surveilzone.com/sony-supe...osd-fpv-hs1171
http://www.surveilzone.com/sony-doub...um-case-HS1182

for flying anything without a headtracker, put this on your goggles. This will make ALL you video reception problems pretty much magically disappear. My favourite purchase of 2014:
http://fpvlr.com/shop/index.php?rout...&product_id=64
BCSaltchucker is offline Find More Posts by BCSaltchucker
Last edited by BCSaltchucker; Feb 10, 2015 at 05:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:38 PM
JIMJAM is offline
Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Registered User
JIMJAM's Avatar
Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Joined Feb 2000
2,930 Posts
Here is a picture of the unknown camera.
I have always built my own but this time I bought a rtf from a reputable seller.
JIMJAM is offline Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:44 PM
Daemon is online now
Find More Posts by Daemon
Registered User
Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
30,562 Posts
Yep, it's an unknown camera alright.
While only CMOS cameras produce jello, it is actually telling you something
useful, that there are high levels of vibration on your quad, and you probably
need to balance your props (or use different brand props).
Daemon is online now Find More Posts by Daemon
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:44 PM
carguy1994ca is offline
Find More Posts by carguy1994ca
I tell her RC is cheap !
carguy1994ca's Avatar
Quebec, Canada
Joined Sep 2006
14,648 Posts
He may as well have a CCD boardcam like the PZ0420 or similar and have the colours washed out. I find they are on mine, but found a thread on RClab on how to adjust it with the OSD and it makes a difference, colors are more vivids.

Isn't that 32 channels 5,8 ghz VTx of low quality also ? And if 32 channels, why only one working with the FS goggles ? Should have all the channels working.
carguy1994ca is offline Find More Posts by carguy1994ca
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:52 PM
JIMJAM is offline
Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Registered User
JIMJAM's Avatar
Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Joined Feb 2000
2,930 Posts
First off, I have been in rc 30 years but know NOTHING about transmitters,receivers and especially FPV. I can fly the snot out of em but electronically I am 3 stooges level. Willing to learn....... and I appreciate the help. Usage will be yard flying,sight seeing. No altitude or distance but obviously lots of obstacles.
So with that in mind.

The setup came with a monitor. Never going to use it.
So I spend 2 hrs and found out if you flip 5 dip switch which is something H that works with Fatshark.
And it does work but only one channel if I manually click the goggles.
Picture is subjective but other than its ability to handle light/dark contrast better, the Nanos and 180 is about imo the same.

I will never use the monitor so yeah,hook me up with a good camera that will fit there,and a trans thats a no brainer to get working. Or at least well documented and known to work well with the Dominators. If you provide a link to said camera and transmitter you get a gold star.
JIMJAM is offline Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 05:56 PM
BCSaltchucker is offline
Find More Posts by BCSaltchucker
fly by night
BCSaltchucker's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
7,286 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy1994ca View Post
He may as well have a CCD boardcam like the PZ0420 or similar and have the colours washed out. I find they are on mine, but found a thread on RClab on how to adjust it with the OSD and it makes a difference, colors are more vivids.

Isn't that 32 channels 5,8 ghz VTx of low quality also ? And if 32 channels, why only one working with the FS goggles ? Should have all the channels working.
no it is not PZ0420 if he gets jello

looks more like the $15 CMOS cams sold at HObbyking and others. no OSD, no WDR, none of that goodness that he can have with a PZ0420 or Effio. I started out using this cheap CMOS cam. Oh how I am so glad I stopped using those CMOS cameras, and followed the good advice of folks on here. Was IBCrazy got me on ot using PZ0420, and I run like 15 of them. But there are other even better options - depends on the lighting you have to deal with, weight your aircraft can handle.

Also need to note one thing about filters: when you do go to get a CCD cam, and you find the SuperHAD600 models (eg PZ0420) you have the option of IR filter or no IR filter. If you fly at fairly bright, sunny places, then get the IR filter .. this will deliver vivid, crisp colours, but it will underperform at dusk and dark times. If you fly in dark areas, dusk or night time, then get it without the IR filter, which will deliver brighter image in dark and night time - but look more washed out in bright sunlight. There are plenty of adjustments in the camera (via its built in OWD) to help make it suit the conditions too. $30 for the basic version, board cam. $35 in a case+mount.

this is the basic, CCD SuperHAD600 board cam, with IR filter installed, with keypad for OSD adjustments $26 now. Only downside is it requires clean 12volts. the ones I listed above work on anything you supply from 5V-24V
http://www.surveilzone.com/fpv/fpv-c...era-2.8mm-lens

This is the SuperHAD600 cam on one of my planes, using Mad Mushroom antenna on teh receiver. This one has the IR Block (so not technically a PZ0420, but that is just someone's in-house sku#)
KatanaMD FPV with CCD (3 min 28 sec)


This is what a CMOS cam looks like in comparison. This is in ideal sunny conditions too, still looks like watching through a fog:
KatanaMD FPV Sunny Funday (3 min 11 sec)
BCSaltchucker is offline Find More Posts by BCSaltchucker
Last edited by BCSaltchucker; Feb 10, 2015 at 06:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 06:00 PM
JIMJAM is offline
Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Registered User
JIMJAM's Avatar
Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Joined Feb 2000
2,930 Posts
Fat Shark 1224 700TVL CCD Pilot's FPV Camera NTSC

ImmersionRC 600mw 5.8Ghz Audio/Video Transmitter Fat Shark Compatible


Good stuff? Yeah...Nay
JIMJAM is offline Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 06:07 PM
carguy1994ca is offline
Find More Posts by carguy1994ca
I tell her RC is cheap !
carguy1994ca's Avatar
Quebec, Canada
Joined Sep 2006
14,648 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMJAM View Post
First off, I have been in rc 30 years but know NOTHING about transmitters,receivers and especially FPV. I can fly the snot out of em but electronically I am 3 stooges level. Willing to learn....... and I appreciate the help. Usage will be yard flying,sight seeing. No altitude or distance but obviously lots of obstacles.
So with that in mind.

The setup came with a monitor. Never going to use it.
So I spend 2 hrs and found out if you flip 5 dip switch which is something H that works with Fatshark.
And it does work but only one channel if I manually click the goggles.
Picture is subjective but other than its ability to handle light/dark contrast better, the Nanos and 180 is about imo the same.

I will never use the monitor so yeah,hook me up with a good camera that will fit there,and a trans thats a no brainer to get working. Or at least well documented and known to work well with the Dominators. If you provide a link to said camera and transmitter you get a gold star.
Don't despair I am more a pilot myself than an expert in electronics, but sure helps to read about the stuff we use and familiarize with what is available. The stuff works and is pretty fun.

What I use on my mini quad is an Immersion RC 600 MW 5,8 ghz VTx with spiro nets antenna. Works very well and has some good penetration through wood and around small - medium buildings depending what they are made of. Also fully compatible with FS frequencies. I use the PZ0420 camera on one and a fatshark 700 on the other, I like both.

Here is live recording from the goggles. recorder loses some quality though. I'm sitting at the pic nic tables you see on the lawn, gives you an idea of what the video does when in the open and behind trees and around the big wood building:

Minion race and aerobatics pratice (3 min 57 sec)
carguy1994ca is offline Find More Posts by carguy1994ca
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 06:16 PM
BCSaltchucker is offline
Find More Posts by BCSaltchucker
fly by night
BCSaltchucker's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
7,286 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMJAM View Post
Fat Shark 1224 700TVL CCD Pilot's FPV Camera NTSC

ImmersionRC 600mw 5.8Ghz Audio/Video Transmitter Fat Shark Compatible


Good stuff? Yeah...Nay
yes that will work great!

but you will pay 50% more to double for Fatshark's name on the same camera. But I will not steer you away from that FS cam as it will indeed be impressive
BCSaltchucker is offline Find More Posts by BCSaltchucker
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 06:18 PM
JIMJAM is offline
Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Registered User
JIMJAM's Avatar
Columbia, South Carolina, United States
Joined Feb 2000
2,930 Posts
On that video I am seeing simular interference but we are talking los in a 1/4 acre backyard!
If I venture around the corner of the house its almost total interference.
Now that I understand these are designed for los I am going to go for better color quality. Like I said distance maybe 100 yards and altitude maybe 60 ft max.


EDIT-Ok per someone who has been helping me for some time now I have purchased this camera and trans.

Fat Shark 1224 700TVL CCD Pilot's FPV Camera NTSC

ImmersionRC 600mw 5.8Ghz Audio/Video Transmitter Fat Shark Compatible
JIMJAM is offline Find More Posts by JIMJAM
Last edited by JIMJAM; Feb 10, 2015 at 06:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 10, 2015, 06:45 PM
Baron Von Red is offline
Find More Posts by Baron Von Red
The red menace of the skies.
Joined Aug 2014
452 Posts
The thing about the Immersion 600mw vtx and the 700 line Fatshark CCD camera is that they are pretty much made for each other. You'll get a grey cable with the camera that will plug right into the transmitter. It's "goof proof" so all you will need to do is power the whole thing from one source.
And you will get NO jello
Most of the really stunning videos you see that say FPV are actually recorded on a separate camera. Carguy has posted what you will realistically see in your goggles.
Baron Von Red is offline Find More Posts by Baron Von Red
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion why are my brushes ruining on my wltoys a979? budgetman Micro Cars 3 Jan 18, 2015 12:21 PM
Help! I really need help you guys are my only hope my cheeoson cx-10 has a problem dirtynitrogen Mini Multirotors 25 Jan 17, 2015 04:48 PM
Discussion Buying engines, high res pictures are great! dmrcflyr2 Trader Talk 1 Nov 19, 2014 02:06 PM
Discussion What are these specks in my high load 60 foam? JonSayre Composites Fabrication 12 Jul 02, 2009 10:35 AM
Discussion Are my temps to high? Bmr4life Electric Heli Talk 4 May 25, 2006 06:50 AM