May 13, 2012, 03:54 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2002
1,952 Posts
Discussion
A little brain-tickler for the science nerds

Everybody knows purported 'perpetual motion' and over-unity devices turn out to have conventional explanations. It might be kinda fun analyzing what's going on with this gizmo..

 Perpetual Motion Machine. Magnetism & Gravity (2 min 1 sec)
 May 13, 2012, 04:44 PM Who, ME? Euclid Ohio Joined May 2005 315 Posts It's only perpetual til you take the magnet away...or if someone forgets to pay the gravity bill..)
 May 13, 2012, 04:53 PM Official Old Git! Hampshire, UK Joined Sep 2000 1,408 Posts Who is Gravity Bill? (a friend of Uncle Sam? )
 May 13, 2012, 04:56 PM Registered User Joined Aug 2003 2,638 Posts The wheel is perpetually unbalanced by the weight of the ball which is perpetually attracted to the magnet. Gravity is constant, as is the magnetic force, and the unbalanced wheel will always try to align itself with the direction of gravity while the ball will align itself with both. The force due to gravity for the wheel is stronger than the grabbing force between the wheel and the ball, so the wheel is able to roll passed the ball.
May 13, 2012, 05:03 PM
Gravity-Compliant User
Joined Mar 2008
1,450 Posts
Just a variation of this device (the water wheel), except it uses water moving by gravity rather than a steel ball affected by friction, gravity and magnetism.

If it weren't for gravity, neither would work.

# Images

May 13, 2012, 06:37 PM
AustinTatious
Hurst, Texas, United States
Joined Jul 2003
1,952 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by HELModels The wheel is perpetually unbalanced by the weight of the ball which is perpetually attracted to the magnet. Gravity is constant, as is the magnetic force, and the unbalanced wheel will always try to align itself with the direction of gravity while the ball will align itself with both. The force due to gravity for the wheel is stronger than the grabbing force between the wheel and the ball, so the wheel is able to roll passed the ball.

This is a sham... And a bad one at that!

Tell me, since the ball is not attached to the wheel, how can it apply anything but a perpendicular force to the wheel? If the force can only be perpendicular how can it cause rotation?

I won't be investing any \$.
May 13, 2012, 07:26 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2003
2,638 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by AustinTatious This is a sham... And a bad one at that! Tell me, since the ball is not attached to the wheel, how can it apply anything but a perpendicular force to the wheel? If the force can only be perpendicular how can it cause rotation? I won't be investing any \$.
Hey,keep in mind I'm not trying to sell it, just discussing it. I dont know if it would keep going, but you can see the ball oscillate at startup, so maybe it will stop when the ball cant oscillate like a pendulum. Applying a force to the wheel at any place other than pi/2 is going to unbalance the wheel. If there were no friction between the ball and the wheel, then the ball couldnt transfer anything.
 May 13, 2012, 07:34 PM Made in the USA Joined May 2010 429 Posts Maybe this is one or those deals where there are batteries and drive devices hidden in the base. If anything the ball being attracted to the magnet would induce rotational friction.
May 13, 2012, 07:36 PM
Trons and Fumes
Fallon, NV
Joined Mar 2007
5,038 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by HELModels Hey,keep in mind I'm not trying to sell it, just discussing it. I dont know if it would keep going, but you can see the ball oscillate at startup, so maybe it will stop when the ball cant oscillate like a pendulum.[/i] The wheel doesn't get off-balance from any weight on that sitde. The ball is spinning the wheel. I doubt it would continue once the ball and wheel are rolling, it will eventually stop. Gravity isn't pulling down on anything on that side of the wheel at all, except at the same rate that it is pulling down on the other side. [quote-HELModels] Applying a force to the wheel at any place other than pi/2 is going to unbalance the wheel. If there were no friction between the ball and the wheel, then the ball couldnt transfer anything.
What force do you speculate is being applied, in what direction?
May 13, 2012, 08:01 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2003
2,638 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by wrightme What force do you speculate is being applied, in what direction?
Looks like the magnet is located at pi/4, so like a prop that is unbalanced mutual gravitational attraction attracts it to a spot parallel to the direction of gravity through its center of rotation.

.
Last edited by HELModels; May 13, 2012 at 08:09 PM.
May 13, 2012, 08:15 PM
AustinTatious
Hurst, Texas, United States
Joined Jul 2003
1,952 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by HELModels Looks like the magnet is located at pi/4, so like a prop that is unbalanced mutual gravitational attraction attracts it to a spot parallel to the direction of gravity through its center of rotation. .
heli I am sorry tell you but you are being tricked by this device. what you need to do try tovisualize what is holding the ball up off the bottom of the ring. Sinc it is not attached to the ring, the magnet is all that is left to hold it up. Since the magnet is holding it up, why would it try to drag the ring down?
 May 13, 2012, 08:26 PM Made in the USA Joined May 2010 429 Posts If it did work every house would have a HUGE in the back yard driving a generator for electricity.
 May 13, 2012, 08:35 PM Who, ME? Euclid Ohio Joined May 2005 315 Posts Maybe it only works where the gravity is strong.
May 13, 2012, 09:00 PM
Registered User
Joined Aug 2003
2,638 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by AustinTatious heli I am sorry tell you but you are being tricked by this device. what you need to do try tovisualize what is holding the ball up off the bottom of the ring. Sinc it is not attached to the ring, the magnet is all that is left to hold it up. Since the magnet is holding it up, why would it try to drag the ring down?
I see it, thanks.

What I imagined was that the ball was oscillating up and down and friction was transferring that to the wheel. Like suspending a bike wheel and tapping it in tiny downward motion with a finger, it starts moving. If you alternately tap in opposing directions, then it will move in the direction of the summed force.

Now, if they turned the magnetic field on and off rapidly, that might explain. I know they cant turn gravity on and off.
 May 13, 2012, 09:01 PM INDORUS EXPARAMINTO Springfield, Missouri, United States Joined Jul 2002 4,206 Posts Does that thing come with a conveyer belt? Larry