I posted this here and I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, but I have been buying from Hobby King (HK) for about a year now and this Christmas gift issue is beyond me and I am asking for help and/or advise from my fellow modelers...

Long story short, I purchased a Balsa Neuport (800mm) as a gift for my son, who also flys...
I did the usual paypal transaction and waited patiently for the plane coming from the "USA Warehouse".
The Box arrived (Dec 23rd) and I knew we had an issue, so much so I grabbed my camera before I even grabbed the scissors, never a good sign

I opened the box and I discovered the fuselage was crushed during shipping... No Merry Christmas apparently....
I calmly wrote the Customer Service folks at HK and the chain of emails back and forth I am simply trying to ask for:
A) A replacement Fuselage or,
B) A credit for the purchase Price to buy a replacement fuse (if available),


All HK wants to do is give me a "$5.00" credit for the damage?! I'm at my witts end and I need some help... Below is the email chain...

HK 1st Reply:

Matthew, Dec 24 14:39 (HKT):
Hi Dwight ,
Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.

We are sorry to know that one of items from your order #2005812406 seems damaged arrival. To open claim file for you, please send us photos to show

1) Laid out all the parts and items clearly on a flat surface. If the item has already been assembled,

2) the whole item and broken part
3) the parcel box and the shipping label

Looking forward to your reply for further assistance.

Thanks for emailing support.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Regards.
Matthew
HobbyKing Support Team
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My reply: with Pics

Hello-

Please review the attached pics and let me know how else I can help. Thank you.

HK Second Reply (after review of my pics)

Matthew, Dec 27 17:53 (HKT):
Hi Dwight ,

Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.

Thank you for your information, the investigation for your claim has completed.
We apologize sincerely for the damaged item which you have received from order #2005812406.

Please kindly advise if you can use the product normally and keep the item , we will offer you $5.0 as compensation for the product.


Thanks for emailing support.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Regards.
Matthew
HobbyKing Support Team

My Reply:

I am confused, the fuselage is damaged, it cannot fly.

I paid $100.00 + for a new, undamaged plane.

I would prefer either
A) a replacement fuselage... or

B) full reimbursement of my purchase.

(After review of my original invoice I sent this follow up email)

Matthew-

I apologize, I have reviewed my records and I was incorrect in my statements on the price of the kit.

The $50 refund you offered is ok with me, can you please credit my Paypal account?

Thank you, sorry for the confusion.

HK reply:

Matthew, Dec 28 09:51 (HKT):
Hi Dwight ,

Thanks for contacting the HobbyKing Support Team.

Sorry for late reply. Please kindly confirm that that the offer we will provide is $5.0 instead of $50.0, and we can only offer the bonus points for warranty instead of refund.

Please advise.


Thanks for emailing support.
If you have any other questions, please let me know.
Regards.
Matthew
HobbyKing Support Team

My Reply:

You must be confused, the plane is ruined from your poor shipping packaging.
I paid roughly $100 for the model and shipping,
I am respectfully asking for a replacement fuselage or a refund of my purchase price...
$5 for a completely ruined plane is an insult.
I will open a Paypal dispute if necessary.

I'm confused here,In your second paragraph last line you even say you knew there was going to be an issue,so much so that you grabbed the camera before grabbing the scissors,because of the obvious damage to the outside of the parcel box,you should of refused the parcel as i would of done,it's common knowledge that you shouldn't except a damaged parcel,and if you really have to then you should sign for it signing damaged at the very least in front of the courier driver,you can clearly see the postal service is at fault here and not HK.

Originally Posted by startazz

I'm confused here,In your second paragraph last line you even say you knew there was going to be an issue,so much so that you grabbed the camera before grabbing the scissors,because of the obvious damage to the outside of the parcel box,you should of refused the parcel as i would of done,it's common knowledge that you shouldn't except a damaged parcel,and if you really have to then you should sign for it signing damaged at the very least in front of the courier driver,you can clearly see the postal service is at fault here and not HK.

I totally agree with you. But, two points to consider:
1) the package was left at the door, I work for a living.
2) HK didn't even "box" the kit, they shipped it in its own box, no packing, no protection, no fragile, no handle with care etc...
HK could, at any time take the issue up with the parcel carrier and keep me in the loop, but thusfar they have not.
They have customer service for a reason and I ask you, is $5 adequate for the damaged fuse? Spend $100 for a new plane and get a damaged one?

Ouch, at least its from the USA warehouse. Looks like you will have to eat the return shipping after the paypal dispute

They only offered you $5 credit and I doubt that a replacement fuselage is even available. Open the Paypal dispute and escalate it to a claim as soon as possible for the cost of the plane & Shipping.

Wow, its difficult to understand how they even stay in business. Some people will immediately defend HK or try and make this your fault somehow, oh wait, maybe thats happened.

All major carriers have very well defined packing methods. Thats not to say you cant ship packages with them that dont meet the specs but in the case of damage claims, the first question carriers will ask is "was it packaged to our specs?". If the package was not, theres very little recourse to fall back on.

MOST poeple (and companies) dont worry about these specs and for the most part, products arrive damage free; Its just risk management. But the packaging specs (cardboard burst, ply layers, etc.) are there for a good reason. Most products shipped within these specs arrive just fine. Its a pain to follow (and more expensive) but thats part of the game.

When you have a vendor like HK who provides virtually non-existent packaging, there is little recourse HK will have against the carrier and Im sure thats one very good reason they make it so difficult to file (and win) a damage claim with them. Whats even crazier is that the the money wouldnt even come out of HK's pocket, they would chase the shipper for the cash. HK is hoping you go away, dont!

Ive had shipments from HK where the only packaging was a flimsy cardboard box, "taped" shut (only one side of the box taped) and lipos rolling around free to slip out.

Heres my advice to you: stand your ground, you did nothing wrong. Dont let anyone try to convince you otherwise. You paid for a brand new item and thats what you deserve. Anything else is just theft. Immediately file the PayPal claim, its the only thing that seems to grab HK's attention.

Unfortunately, this is the cost of doing business with HK. Hang in there and keep us posted.

Oh, one more thing. There is nothing wrong with accepting a damaged package as long as the box isnt torn in 10 pieces, etc. It is a good idea to note the damage on the delivery recepit (if you present at time of delivery). Of course all of this is somewhat predicated on the notion that the vendor would work WITH you in resolving these issues.

Well said....

Originally Posted by Carnifax

Wow, its difficult to understand how they even stay in business. Some people will immediately defend HK or try and make this your fault somehow, oh wait, maybe thats happened.


Where have we heard this before? Sounds familiar....seems like anyone who doesn't automatically start vilifying HK get vilified themselves.

Appears whats difficult for some to grasp is how people keep wondering how HK stays in business. It might be their prices, their products, and the sheer amount of business they do? Can someone point to the next most similar structured company (and successful too)? Hint: there are none.

It's funny and somewhat sad at that same time to see people continue to talk about the demise of the company, "they will be out of business soon, their competitors are coming after them, they have overextended their reach, etc etc etc.". Is the thought that if enough people wish for this that it will happen?




When you have a vendor like HK who provides virtually non-existent packaging, there is little recourse HK will have against the carrier and Im sure thats one very good reason they make it so difficult to file (and win) a damage claim with them. Whats even crazier is that the the money wouldnt even come out of HK's pocket, they would chase the shipper for the cash. HK is hoping you go away, dont!

Where do these generalizations come from? Any of the planes I've ever purchased have been double boxed. I've never received a package without airpockets or bubblewrap. Just got the Auto G (Gyro) plane from them this week. Double boxed. Outer box was custom cut to fit airplane/gyro box. (Of course that might explain why it took from 12-15 to 12-31 to get to me from the US warehouse).

Ive had shipments from HK where the only packaging was a flimsy cardboard box, "taped" shut (only one side of the box taped) and lipos rolling around free to slip out.

How about other shipments? Where any of them well done?

Heres my advice to you: stand your ground, you did nothing wrong. Dont let anyone try to convince you otherwise. You paid for a brand new item and thats what you deserve. Anything else is just theft. Immediately file the PayPal claim, its the only thing that seems to grab HK's attention.

Theft? Criminal activity, really? More like careless shipping. Clearly they didn't pack the box well, and it got walloped.

Unfortunately, this is the cost of doing business with HK. Hang in there and keep us posted.

Yes, that is the risk and sometimes cost of doing business with HK, with any company actually. Tower sent a double boxed glider to me once, it got dinged up, i took a pic and called to ask about getting another wing or a partial credit. They said keep the old plane, another will be sent today. HK clearly has a different process. And not always a customer friendly one.


Oh, one more thing. There is nothing wrong with accepting a damaged package as long as the box isnt torn in 10 pieces, etc. It is a good idea to note the damage on the delivery recepit (if you present at time of delivery). Of course all of this is somewhat predicated on the notion that the vendor would work WITH you in resolving these issues.

OP it looks like you got good pics of the box, that should help with your claim. The one that shows the name of the plane inside the box, and the shipping label is the best one...shows there was no double box when, at a minimum, that might have helped. At the end of the day, you paid for something and what you got was significantly not as described. I'm guessing you'll have to send it back (same box of course, fair is fair), and you'll prevail on your case. Don't spend anymore time dealing with HK as the offer they made you is beyond insulting. $5.00 wouldn't pay for the glue to fix it.

No, I don't work for HK. Yes, I buy from them. Yes, they tick me off sometimes (this being one of them). Yes, they lack a full and robust workflow for customer satisfaction. No, I don't think they are done working on that. Yes, people will continue to buy from them and have complaints. Not a company out there that doesn't have complaints.

IMO planes are a much bigger risk at HK. HK does not package planes well enough, they often don't have spare parts, and due to shipping costs the savings aren't that great compared to smaller components.

They also have a tendency to flip the box - if the item comes with a box from the factory, they just open the box, flip it inside out and use that as the shipping box. I suppose that works but isn't ideal, especially for poorly packaged planes from the factory.

Sorry Porcia, Im not taking the bait. Find another "mark".

OP, if you need any assistance fighting the freight claim, feel free to PM, I have years of experience preventing vendors treating their customers this way.

Thx

Originally Posted by Carnifax

Sorry Porcia, Im not taking the bait. Find another "mark".

OP, if you need any assistance fighting the freight claim, feel free to PM, I have years of experience preventing vendors treating their customers this way.

No bait, just trying to figure out where the generalizations come from. It's easier to not answer, I get it.

Originally Posted by Razor_Racer

IMO planes are a much bigger risk at HK. HK does not package planes well enough, they often don't have spare parts, and due to shipping costs the savings aren't that great compared to smaller components.

They also have a tendency to flip the box - if the item comes with a box from the factory, they just open the box, flip it inside out and use that as the shipping box. I suppose that works but isn't ideal, especially for poorly packaged planes from the factory.

Your right... Planes are a bigger risk... I have read plenty of horror stories in build threads etc.... But it happened to me! Lol

I have received over the past week plenty of other things like motors, batteries, servos.... I'll think twice about planes though.... I've fixed worse crash damage on fuses, but a pre-crashed fuse is not what I was expecting... XD

Originally Posted by porcia83

No bait, just trying to figure out where the generalizations come from. It's easier to not answer, I get it.

Yeah I took the bait on my thread, pretty annoying eh Carnifax. Porcai, your statements make the least amount of sense in response to Carnifax. These aren't generalizations. This IS criminal activity because several other companies have gone out of business because of shipping scams in this exact same manner. This happens on a daily basis, and is not just careless shipping anymore. They receive claims like this everyday but still do nothing about it to help out their customers. Cash grab is all it is, Hobby King stole my money too.


I feel for you Demon 6, all you want to do is have fun flying your plane with your son and Hobby King does not care the least bit. This is just another example of Hobby Kings absolutely terrible customer service.

It only takes one, extremely pi**ed off customer to end HK terror No legal action required.

Carnifax's post is spot on, you should listen to him

You're too funny. It was "bait" that you say you took in your other thread and it was "annoying", yet you come to this thread and continue commenting.

As we're talking about comments that make sense or don't, this one doesn't seem to make any;

It only takes one, extremely pi**ed off customer to end HK terror No legal action required.

What does that mean?

And speaking of legal action, how funny would it be to see some of these companies go after bloggers and posters when they see comments like this:

but it's the fact that they can take your money (hundreds if not thousands of dollars) and then give you no service..

..When you have a vendor like HK who provides virtually non-existent packaging..

....Anything else is just theft.... or the best, it's Criminal

All of those might be opinions, but they are completely unsupported with any factual evidence. Nada. Zip. None.

But listen, there are those that will continue to beat the anti HK drum and long for the day the company is out of business, or perhaps even "brought to justice".

The simple fact is, the only way to change that companies behavior is to not spend your hard earned money.