HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Mar 08, 2013, 08:52 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2013
10 Posts
I am also starting a dauntless build this weekend, I have appreciated the advice on motors but it does not seem like any consensus has been reached on the best motors. I am leaning in the direction of a 700 sized motor instead of the brushless. The motors and controllers are less expensive and have a simpler and more rugged design. looking at the video above the 700 seems to be plenty of power for me without the expensive and fragile electronics. I think the setup i'm looking at is twin Graupner Speed 700BB Turbo 8.4V (6316) with a speed controls to match. twin 6v lead acid (more for ballest than anything) and a spectrum 7 channel receiver.

I tried to order the MACK hardware set for this boat today but they seem hard to order from. It seems I'm the only one who works on Friday anymore. It seems the MACK is better than the Dumas hardware and about the same cost when you include the props.

I notice some people are talking about water cooling, are you using passive systems or active pumps. I think I would like an active system so I can simulate the constant output like a normal water cooled dessel but I cant find a good, small pump with continuous duty cycle.

So onto my questions,

1: Where can I find a ready to run water pump, No I'm not going to use a windshield washer, or other silliness, I'd Like a standard model, even if it costs 10$ more than a junk yard.

2: Would a bow thruster be a good addition or should I avoid it as this is my first build, and what size would you recommend? it seems they come in about 2 sizes, 13-15mm and 30-40mm

3: When I look at motors, they have a voltage range, like 6-19v with a nominal voltage of something like 9. Does this mean I need to run a 9 volt system or can I go with a standard 6-7 volt system and not worry about motor voltage as long as my ESC and supply voltage is within the motor voltage range?

4: My boat club (who are very unhelpful for advice but fun anyway) all use the new spectrum DX controls (we have a member that converts them to twin stick controls) Does the spectrum system and receiver work with both brushless and brushed ESC? Do most ESC work with most recievers or would I need a spectrum ESC as well?

5: Has anyone had any problem with elecrosis on models. I was looking at: http://www.engagerc.com/servlet/the-...-pickup/Detail But I know that aluminum and bronze do to agree with each other over time. Should I find a different pickup or is the corrosion not a concern?

6: And most importantly, can I proceed with building the boat before I have the running hardware? I want to start on it this weekend but I don't have the stuffing boxes yet.

Thanks
AtomicFlx is offline Find More Posts by AtomicFlx
Last edited by AtomicFlx; Mar 08, 2013 at 09:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:17 PM
Registered User
Tollytime's Avatar
United States, MI, Macomb
Joined Nov 2006
1,174 Posts
I use a Futaba clone FlySky FS-GT3B Digital 3ch 2.4ghz TX & RX LCD Transmitter & Receiver.

Now tha you saved $100.00, buy some real motors. Graupner 700BB? What is this, 1982?
Tollytime is offline Find More Posts by Tollytime
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:23 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2009
20 Posts
Hello AtomicFlx

It looks like you and I are in the same boat I'm still getting things organized and I'm having lots of fun extracting all of the plywood parts . Tolly has suggested a relatively inexpensive way to "hop up" to a brushless setup using electric motors from hobby king. I like the idea of a water cooled jacket already on the motor and the water cooled heat sink on the controller . No offense to hobby king but their stuff is cheap because it is made in China and they buy direct , these are the kind of motors you find in high end RTR's .

I sent an email to offshoreelectrics.com to see if they could give a recommendation that I could post on the thread . Something in between the 12 volt dumas motors and the 25 astro motors that are recomended in the Dauntless instructions A few of their motors come with cooling jackets already on . I think for a few extra bucks this will be the way to go . I would like to buy North American if I could .
scaleboater44 is offline Find More Posts by scaleboater44
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:24 PM
Registered User
Tollytime's Avatar
United States, MI, Macomb
Joined Nov 2006
1,174 Posts
KMB Jet drives where originally designed for Graupner 700BB motors. Now there is an adapter plate for mounting brushless motors that are smaller and far more powerfull.

A KMB Drive stuffed into a NQD Jet boat with the same brushless motor in the pictures below. I would like to see a 700BB match the performance.

Putting a KMB drive into a tiny NQD jet boat is pretty silly, but fun to watch. Yes, he has the motor model number wrong. It's a 4042.

KMB Jet drive NQD jet sprint hull BL4024 2400kv River climbing (1 min 47 sec)
Tollytime is offline Find More Posts by Tollytime
Last edited by Tollytime; Mar 08, 2013 at 10:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:29 PM
Registered User
Tollytime's Avatar
United States, MI, Macomb
Joined Nov 2006
1,174 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaleboater44 View Post
Hello AtomicFlx

It looks like you and I are in the same boat I'm still getting things organized and I'm having lots of fun extracting all of the plywood parts . Tolly has suggested a relatively inexpensive way to "hop up" to a brushless setup using electric motors from hobby king. I like the idea of a water cooled jacket already on the motor and the water cooled heat sink on the controller . No offense to hobby king but their stuff is cheap because it is made in China and they buy direct , these are the kind of motors you find in high end RTR's .

I sent an email to offshoreelectrics.com to see if they could give a recommendation that I could post on the thread . Something in between the 12 volt dumas motors and the 25 astro motors that are recomended in the Dauntless instructions A few of their motors come with cooling jackets already on . I think for a few extra bucks this will be the way to go . I would like to buy North American if I could .
Check the copyright date on those instructions, it was looooong time ago. Despite where you buy, it's from China. Your just paying for markup.
Tollytime is offline Find More Posts by Tollytime
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:39 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2009
20 Posts
Wow TollyTime ! That's something you should post on a thread for the Dumas American Enterprise , I've seen two that had jet drives instead of props .

AtomicFlx: Be patient with Mack products I see they on their web site they had some damage from Tropical strom SANDY . I'm glad you pointed out Mack products to me , they sell the Dauntless , running gear and brushless motors . They might have something to say about updating the Dauntless power recomendations .
scaleboater44 is offline Find More Posts by scaleboater44
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:48 PM
Plures Naves Quam Mentes
sound sailor's Avatar
United States, NY, Westchester
Joined Jul 2011
1,566 Posts
Some of us give advice based on our personal experience with this boat rather than what we think will work. Remember there are different types of boat hulls that effect how fast you can make it go. When it comes to Daunless it is a semi displacement heavy hull and being a scale model, I have no idea why you would want to do a hole shot with her or go beyond scale speed. Get a fast electric if that is your bag.. Notice that that little pt with 2 brushless motors still did not have the speed of the deep vee in the first video with 1 brushless. Tolly goes so far as to tell what prop you will need (in theory). Not being as bright, when I set up my boat, I had to experiment with 3 different prop sizes to get the best results. People who had never built a Dauntless told me I needed a 2" prop. I now run 1 1/2".BTW the same is true with brushless. If to big a prop is used the brushless ESC will intermittantly shut down and pickup again when you go full power. To small and you will have no power. I know this from personal experience also. Then he tells you what Xmtr to use. Can that one be modded to a 2 stick?
We that are living in the past (so we are constantly being told) only are telling what works for us, trying to be helpful, but you are more than welcome to use whatever you like. Experimenting can be costly in the long run. Since my way is so 1982 I will no longer give any advice on running gear for Dauntless on the site. Tolly can answer your other 6 questions.

MACK was put out of business by Huricane Sandy and is in the process of rebuilding. He does not currently have the running gear for Dauntless. BTW Rich, owner of MACK, has never built a Dauntless either so any reccommendations will not be based on experience also.

Rich, sorry you moved the thread here.
sound sailor is offline Find More Posts by sound sailor
Last edited by sound sailor; Mar 08, 2013 at 11:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:53 PM
Registered User
United States, TX, Plano
Joined May 2007
1,516 Posts
I have to agree with Bill here..we cannot speculate otherwise who knows what is going to happen during actual tests. Tolly offered potentially good information but it hasn't been tested in the Dauntless. We know what works in the Dauntless based on our experience which is a safe bet. There is a good possibility that what Tolly says might work in the Dauntless. It hasn't been tested yet therefore it's still just speculation. It will be great to see someone run tests on the Dauntless using brushless. I won't do it because my boat runs beautiful on a good old fashioned brushed Astroflight system. I'm sure at some point someone will go forth and run a Dauntless brushless and when it happens we'll be watching to see what works and what doesn't. This is much like how we got the combination right on brushed systems. Someone has to lay out the money and take a chance.

-Rich.
RICH404 is offline Find More Posts by RICH404
Last edited by RICH404; Mar 08, 2013 at 11:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 10:59 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2009
20 Posts
Thanks for the info Sound Sailor . I think Tolly time misunderstood when I asked early on about the Astro 25 motors . I'm not looking to compete in races and It was Tolly who used the word hole shot . I want somethingI that behaves in a scale like fashon but maybe could go a little faster than scale if needed .
scaleboater44 is offline Find More Posts by scaleboater44
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:17 PM
Registered User
United States, TX, Plano
Joined May 2007
1,516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sound sailor View Post

Rich, sorry you moved the thread here.
Hi Bill,

We still have both threads, this one is just a little more progressive than the other one. Perhaps someone here is willing to go brushless and do the same trials that we did with brushed. If anything these trials it will expand our knowledge on brushless systems in heavy planing boats. I would like to see someone try it but I can't offer suggestions because I have nothing to base it on.

-Rich.
RICH404 is offline Find More Posts by RICH404
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:22 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2013
10 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaleboater44 View Post
Thanks for the info Sound Sailor . I think Tolly time misunderstood when I asked early on about the Astro 25 motors . I'm not looking to compete in races and It was Tolly who used the word hole shot . I want somethingI that behaves in a scale like fashon but maybe could go a little faster than scale if needed .
This is the exact performance I have been looking for. Something to push it a bit faster than scale speeds. I still have not seen a recommendation other than the brushless motors suggested by tolly or the 700's from above. I have a hard time taking the advice of someone who thinks 3 channel radios would work for scale ship applications, I have lighting and radar, and pumps, and sound to control. So what have other people used? I'm just trying to get an idea of what people are using.

My original idea was twin 550's but I think I have ruled them out as being underpowered.

I did not notice the Mack products notice on the website as I had the parts bookmarked. I knew I should have ordered the parts 6 months ago. Well I guess its off to tower hobbies for the Dumas running gear. I wonder how many other city's and business need to be destroyed before the republicans the religious nut jobs get the hint about global climate change?
AtomicFlx is offline Find More Posts by AtomicFlx
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:27 PM
Plures Naves Quam Mentes
sound sailor's Avatar
United States, NY, Westchester
Joined Jul 2011
1,566 Posts
Look, We are showing videos of Dauntless performing with our outdated motors but he constantly has to say they can't perform sufficiently. Brushless although untried in this boat (some have tried weedeaters) may well work but so does ours so why give attitude about our tried and true method.

As I said I will no longer give advice on new builds and leave that to others.

Rich I hooked up the sound system. We will have to have a phone conversation about that. My graphics came from Callie but when I put them on they were 1/16 out of plumb so i removed them and ordereed another set. I suppose most wouldn't notice but i did.
sound sailor is offline Find More Posts by sound sailor
Last edited by sound sailor; Mar 08, 2013 at 11:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:31 PM
Registered User
Tollytime's Avatar
United States, MI, Macomb
Joined Nov 2006
1,174 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sound sailor View Post
Some of us give advice based on our personal experience with this boat rather than what we think will work. Remember there are different types of boat hulls that effect how fast you can make it go. When it comes to Daunless it is a semi displacement heavy hull and being a scale model, I have no idea why you would want to do a hole shot with her or go beyond scale speed. Get a fast electric if that is your bag.. Notice that that little pt with 2 brushless motors still did not have the speed of the deep vee in the first video with 1 brushless. Tolly goes so far as to tell what prop you will need (in theory). Not being as bright, when I set up my boat, I had to experiment with 3 different prop sizes to get the best results. People who had never built a Dauntless told me I needed a 2" prop. I now run 1 1/2".BTW the same is true with brushless. If to big a prop is used the brushless ESC will intermittantly shut down and pickup again when you go full power. To small and you will have no power. I know this from personal experience also. Then he tells you what Xmtr to use. Can that one be modded to a 2 stick?
We that are living in the past (so we are constantly being told) only are telling what works for us, trying to be helpful, but you are more than welcome to use whatever you like. Experimenting can be costly in the long run. Since my way is so 1982 I will no longer give any advice on running gear for Dauntless on the site. Tolly can answer your other 6 questions.

MACK was put out of business by Huricane Sandy and is in the process of rebuilding. He does not currently have the running gear for Dauntless. BTW Rich, owner of MACK, has never built a Dauntless either so any reccommendations will not be based on experience also.

Rich, sorry you moved the thread here.
You are correct sir and I'm sorry I offednded you. I don't have a working boat yet and the pond is frozen stiff. I've been doing research on this type of setup and it comes from a British forum for large torpedo boarts and there are no pics or videos.
Brushless is a reality we will all have to embrace very soon. I made a horrible mistake buying a brushed short course race truck from Traxxas. After a costly conversion to Lipo and brushless, the results were astounding. Longer run times and shocking performance.
Boat building is a long process, and putting it in the water can be a huge disappointment when it goes slower than a toy boat in your tub.
Aircraft and surface vehicles have already made the transition. Race boats are all brushless, and 2 stroke motors are in danger of disappearing. Nitro motors may be gone in less than two years.
Scale boats are suffering from a poor performance image. They should be fun to run and go faster than scale just to keep interest in the hobby.
I'm trying to induce builders to abandon the old brushed systems and discover better setup designs for newbies.

Let's drop a brushless in a tug, OK, bad idea!!

world fastest Atlantic Tug Rc HDV lol (0 min 52 sec)
Tollytime is offline Find More Posts by Tollytime
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:39 PM
Registered User
Tollytime's Avatar
United States, MI, Macomb
Joined Nov 2006
1,174 Posts
Ummm, I guess you can test a brushless boat in the snow?

Snow Boating !!! With the Miss Geico (10 min 6 sec)
Tollytime is offline Find More Posts by Tollytime
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 08, 2013, 11:47 PM
Plures Naves Quam Mentes
sound sailor's Avatar
United States, NY, Westchester
Joined Jul 2011
1,566 Posts
Quote:
They should be fun to run and go faster than scale
Another point we disagree on. If it goes faster than scale is it still scale then?
There are plenty of ARTR on the market that will go fast and will satisfy entry level modelers. I am not against brushless and have one I built since they DO race lobster boats in Maine and this is scale based on one of them. BTW in this video you can see the ESC cut out momentarily at full speed. Most of the time it has to run at 75% power. There is still a place for brushed and especially if one does not want to go water cooled.

Red Baron, RC lobster boat repowered (3 min 8 sec)
sound sailor is offline Find More Posts by sound sailor
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Just another commute billyd60 Life, The Universe, and Politics 4 Jul 16, 2012 03:04 PM
Sold Dumas Dauntless hampboats Boats (FS/W) 1 Apr 30, 2012 07:08 PM
Sold Windrider SBD Dauntless kit NIB.(EPS version) bouncebk2003 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 6 Apr 29, 2012 07:18 PM
Discussion ESM SBD Dauntless Dimensions paulhlee Scale ARF/RTF 0 Mar 16, 2012 07:09 PM
Discussion Two different RPM-lathered commutator and isnt lathered commutator?? mir_as82 Electric Motor Design and Construction 2 Aug 24, 2011 12:11 AM