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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:08 AM
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sloperjoe's Avatar
United States, WA, Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan smith View Post
Washout is the Complete opposite of of what you want in an FSW, FSW's need Wash-in (negative washout, so the tips both stall at the same time dropping the nose and regaining airspeed Rather than wash out which would keep the tips flying and cause the plane to pitch up aggravating the Stall and causing an Eventual Splat! )
though FSW's Need to have a vey stiff wing (to go fast) due to aeroelasticty.. but im not sure that it comes into play at this scale..

Keenan

hate to tell ya this but I have designed, built, and flown several forward swept wing aircraft, all have had wash-out, not wash-in, all have been very stable and tame flyers slow and high speed. there is at least one other on RCG that has built a similar design airframe and he also used washout....and it also flies just fine.
I will not be engaging in an argument about who is right, dont matter to me if you want to go with wash-out, or wash-in, just sayin washout IS what I use and it works just dandy

Joe
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 06:29 AM
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United States, WA, Vancouver
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Originally Posted by chochmah View Post
That's a beautiful model! If I can manage something half as good looking I'll be more then satisfied. Right now I have a build a profile foamy and I did some glide tests that where pretty successful. No need for Washout at the moment but that might change when I install the electrics and increase the weight. One thing though. No matter how far forward I place the CG, when the model flies below a certain speed the tail instead of the nose drops. Might be a characteristic of the forward swept wing.



Hold your Horses! I want to build and trim a model that's stable without gyros and then play around with the CG and artificial stabilization. Besides, I don't think that a gyro will magically stabilize any plane no matter how unruly it is but I have never even seen one in real life so what do I know.

Cheers
well thankyou,
the only thing I can think of that would cause the tail to drop is that you still havent quite got the CG nailed yet, I was pretty surprised at just how forward the CG can be. the model in the build thread has a CG right at the TE of the little canards. the only other thing that might give you fits is the V-tail, on this version http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=fvEOopBybmQ I had to dial in the rates to even begin to fly it, it wound up liking more elevator than roll, and wound up using 40% on the roll, and 60% on the elev for rates, with them equal and on higher rates it was near impossible to fly
link to the build thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1725467&page=5

Joe
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 03:51 PM
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United States, CO, Westminster
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Thats looks like an acecombat jet the X-02 wyvern? If so take alook at the my ADF-01 Falken in my blog.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chester2240 View Post
Thats looks like an acecombat jet the X-02 wyvern? If so take alook at the my ADF-01 Falken in my blog.
ooooooo... man thats sweet lookin, did you ever get it in the air!

Joe
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 04:35 PM
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Germany, BW, Ibach
Joined Dec 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chester2240 View Post
Thats looks like an acecombat jet the X-02 wyvern? If so take alook at the my ADF-01 Falken in my blog.
I honestly don't know what kind of jet it is supposed to be, I took the model from the web because I liked the shape and did some simplifications to the structure. I assumed it to be some artists impression of what a 6th? generation russian fighter jet might look like in a fantasy world. Pak-FA or how they call it. It sure looks like the original designer was heavily inspired by X-02 wyvern though. Your ADF-01 looks incredible detailed especially for the small size. I hope you'll get it, or the larger one your building according to the last entry in the blog, into the air some day soon. Kind of curious how it will fly and where the CG will be since it has almost no wings and that fork-tail. I'm going to do a pusherprop profile version first so I can dial in throws, CG etc. and won't be to afraid to launch the more work intensive full body model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sloperjoe View Post
well thankyou,
the only thing I can think of that would cause the tail to drop is that you still havent quite got the CG nailed yet, I was pretty surprised at just how forward the CG can be. the model in the build thread has a CG right at the TE of the little canards. the only other thing that might give you fits is the V-tail, on this version http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=fvEOopBybmQ I had to dial in the rates to even begin to fly it, it wound up liking more elevator than roll, and wound up using 40% on the roll, and 60% on the elev for rates, with them equal and on higher rates it was near impossible to fly
And... you where right. Asche auf mein Haupt. I thought the CG could not possibly be in front of the extended wing root and stopped there with the CG experimenting. After reading your post I attempted to shift it to the trailing edge of the canard and: problem solved. No dropping the tail in a stall anymore. I guess it will need some uptrim now to achieve a less steep glide path but I won't find out before HK delivers the electrics. Thanks again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by indoor_fr View Post
The scale speed is the clue of the problem.
Everything is explained here:
[...]
Hope this helps.
Thanks. That must be the final word on matter. This Link should be in some sort of "read this" for RCGroups. Took me a while to understand everything. Unfortunately there is no Real Forward Swept Wing Fighter Plane whose numbers I could plug into those formulas but I can use model airplanes with known flight characteristics and scale them down according to your formulas. Thank you very much!
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
sloperjoe Quote:
Originally Posted by chester2240
Thats looks like an acecombat jet the X-02 wyvern? If so take alook at the my ADF-01 Falken in my blog.

ooooooo... man thats sweet lookin, did you ever get it in the air!

Joe
No and i dont think i will ever i built it to heavy. If i was to scale it up a bit to a 15in WS then i could get it to fly. The CG is the thing i could never figure out thats why im intrested in this thread.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 09:24 AM
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Hampton, VA
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Chester2240,
I checked your blog. That ADF-01 Falken is SWEET! I wouldn't mind having a go at it, if you don't mind. PM me when you get a chance.

Ksqm
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 05:39 PM
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Paris (France)
Joined Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chochmah View Post

Thanks. That must be the final word on matter. This Link should be in some sort of "read this" for RCGroups. Took me a while to understand everything. Unfortunately there is no Real Forward Swept Wing Fighter Plane whose numbers I could plug into those formulas but I can use model airplanes with known flight characteristics and scale them down according to your formulas. Thank you very much!
You're welcome.
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