I couldn't resist a good deal at my LHS on the Phoenix Top Model F4U, 1670mm wingspan for .60-90 glow, and claimed to be also convertible to electric: http://phoenixmodel.com/Default.aspx...atId=62&id=301

I've seen a fair bit of info about the .46 size from Phoenix, but not this one so I thought I'd offer a few observations.

Externally, it looks great, with nice tight covering. Internally, I'd say OK. Built from laser cut balsa and ply, with the fuselage, fin and stab fully sheeted, and the wing about half sheeted. The quality of the ply is clearly not up to the same standard as 3DHS or Sebart, with a few cracks & delaminations apparent. Gluing doesn't look too bad, but I'm still going to be running CA along all the joints I can get at. A major feature re electric powering is that the top of the fuselage back to the canopy just lifts off, making battery access a snap. But for AUD$260 including the retracts and all the other hardware I think it is pretty reasonable value.

Hardware is highlighted by the air retracts included in the kit, with 90 degree rotation and about 12-15mm travel in the legs. Eagle eyed readers will notice that several of the internal shots on the web site are of the smaller model with mechanical retracts. I've never bought an air retract so I've nothing to compare, but they seem to operate without too much slop and are certainly a lot more solid than cheap mechanicals.

Hardware also includes glow engine mount and 50mm standoffs and bolts for electric motor mounting, with the firewall marked for drilling for the electric standoffs.

Don't be fooled by the web photos showing a 4S 3200 and a 2836 motor - they're old .46 size shots. I mention this because the fuel tank/battery platform in the bigger model is very short - barely half the length of a 6S 5000 pack, and there is a pair of wing bolts under where the battery will go, preventing making a permanent fixed longer battery tray. I plan to build up the glow servo throttle mount by about 16mm, and mount my batteries on their own removable tray and secure it on top of the fuel tank mount and the raised throttle servo mount.

The recommended motor is the Emax BL4030, Kv=385 and 325g. The manual shows 120mm from firewall to prop driver for glow, and 125mm in the 1 page electric conversion supplement (which shows a different model with a motor box), so I'm going with 120mm.

I'm planning to use a Hyperion Zs 4205-14, Kv=370, 416g, on 6S and around a 16x12 prop for about 1300-1400W in. Similar power to what I run in a 7lb pattern model, and even if this ends up nearer 4kg/9lb, it will still be adeqautely overpowered, if not super fast. From a rough check now I have one landing gear installed it looks like there is massive prop clearance - probably over 12" to the prop shaft with the model level.

So far I've done the ailerons and one landing gear. It uses CA hinges that are well aligned. The servos mount on screw attached plates, which already have platforms attached to suit standard size servos - no gluing wooden blocks

The gear mounts seem very robust and have blind nuts fitted - unfortunately the supplied M3 socket head bolts are too short. 20mm from my stash are long enough. The gear wells are a very neat fit.

I'll update as other things pop up during the build. I'm keen to get it finished and flying ASAP as a club-mate bought the other one the shop had and he is fitting something like a 1.10, but some of his models don't survive too long and I want to get a side by side performance comparison.

Spent a bit of time wondering whether to fit an NGH GT17cc gasser as a way of easing into gas power instead of launching straight into a 50cc on another model. But when I figured my planned electric setup was going to turn a 16x10" prop at the same or better rpm, and the gasser was going to muck up the cowl, and I can get 5 6S 5000s for the price of the engine, electric it's going to be.

Tail feathers are done. The slot for the stab was very true and accurate in size - no sanding or adjusting required.

The model uses an interesting setup for the tailwheel steering, allowing a clean appearance and near scale location. The tailwheel pivot goes right through the fuselage, bearing on a plastic bracket concealed in the bottom of the fuse, and then into a tube in the bottom leading edge of the rudder, and then is secured by a collar with a grub screw, also built in and concealed in the LE of the rudder.

Looks like I'll be able to share the same packs between the Corsair, a Hangar 9 Pawnee and a Sebart Wind S 50e.

Sounds good.

I'm currently building the Phoenix Top model P-47 (won it in a raffle!)

Set us to be an OS 5020-375 on 6s 5000 with a 16x10 prop.

Originally Posted by Stingerson

Sounds good.

I'm currently building the Phoenix Top model P-47 (won it in a raffle!)

Set us to be an OS 5020-375 on 6s 5000 with a 16x10 prop.

Nice prize!

That's what I use in my Sebart WindS 50e - although I prefer the 16x12. Motor and packs come down just comfortably warm after 7-8 minute flights - awesome power

ps what are you doing for filling the air tank?

I've just bought some more of the 4mm push on connectors including a fitting whih take the airline to a 1/8" BSP thread, which I should be able to adapt somehow to get a pump on

Slow progress but no major problems.

Still trying to figure out how I am going to pump up the air tank. I'm starting to think I may have to resort to a basketball/football inflation needle glued in to some of the airline. It's a snug fit, but not enough to withstand pressure without glue.

On the plus side for the LG plumbing, the push to connect 4mm connectors make plumbing and wing install/removal very easy. It will be interesting to see if the connections remain airtight after numerous insertions and removals. The travel for the LG control valve though is very small - I used 60% endpoints on the innermost hole of a standard JR horn.

With the motor now installed, it's looking like balance might be OK with my 6S 5000 packs.

I'm using a CC Talon 90 ESC that fits neatly in the cutout in the bottom fuselage, I guess for clearance for a glow muffler, so it should get good cooling there. Probably stick with its built in 20Apeak/9A BEC and use a Scorpion backup guard just in case.

Should be ready for Sunday if I can get the air pressure sorted out in time - everything except an Rx location and the battery platform is done.

The P-47 has a fuse mounted retract servo.

I'm using pop on ball links as i cant taker the plan the the field assembled.

Good luck with sorting out the air.

These Phoenix Top model kits come with 4mm OD 2.5mm ID polyurethane line and push to connect (or push in) fittings, commonly used in industry for pneumatic solutions - good quality, airtight under high pressure, very easy to plumb, but the one thing missing was how to get air in. The kit came with a check valve with barbs on each end, but that's not much help without a way of connecting the 4mm line to a pump.

So I bought an extra push in fitting that takes the 4mm line to a 1/8 BSP male thread, thinking I'd be able to adapt that to a bike pump or portable compressor, but it turns out that while airbrush equipment is pretty stanbard with 1/8 BSP, reasonably priced portable compressors aren't.

After much mucking around, it finally occurred to me to search for a 1/8 BSP to Schrader (car tire valve) adapter, and bingo! These are called tank valves and aren't too hard to find. It also means I can ditch the supplied one way valve, because the schrader fitting does the job.

So now I'll be able to fill the tank with a bike pump or a battery powered compressor - in fact a local hardware store (Bunnings for Aussies) has one under $30 that has a pressure preset. And anyone with a few 3S LiPos is not short of 12V power, especially at the low power demand of the compressor.

Woo hoo!

Probably a little heavier and bulkier than a Robart solution, but a darn sight easier to do the connections, and I suspect overall cheaper too.

Now of course the weather isn't going to cooperate for our club military flyin day tomorrow, but the principle is important - I'll be ready.

Successfully flew the electrified Corsair today. Warm up flights on 2 other models were in basically still air, then over 10 minutes a fairly fresh breeze popped up, but not too gusty so I gave it a go.

Weight ended up just over 10lb, and with CG right on the recommended 105mm, it's not unstable, but definitely doesn't need any more than the recommend control throws. Started off with high rates which have more than the recommended throw, plus about 50% expo but very quickly shifted to low rates, which are close to the recommended throws. I'll reduce the mechanical throws before flying again, except on the rudder as the tailwheel was not very effective.

Performance was not bad but the weight and smaller wing takes its toll, although gusty conditions and lack of familiarity are a factor. Sporty warbird performance but not the towering vertical I get out of a similar system in a 7lb pattern model. Predicted peak power is about 1200W. Motor and packs were acceptably warm after 5 mins, at fairly high average throttle. Haven't recharged yet to chekc average power.

Tried one stall at altitude and it dropped a wing pretty smartly, but with the decent wing loading it felt OK keeping the speed up on approach and then easing off the power once lined up. The wide track on the gear is very nice.

Very happy with the air retracts with the push to connect fittings. 4 connections need to be made when assembling the model, but they are super quick and leak free. Pumped the tank to 75psi, left the model for about 40 minutes, then cycled the gear 7 times before it ran out of pressure. The airline needs a signficant amount of restriction to reduce the slamming up and down of the gear.

Couple of points for prospective builder:

the wing bolts, both fore and aft are way too long. Without trimming they hit the internal structure of the wing.

The gullwing shape and dihedral are not particularly accurate - it seems to be a more gradual curve than the full-scale, with a lot more dihedral on the outer panels than the scale 8 degrees. But it flys OK

There are incorrect pictures showing the wheels on the inboard side of the struts - don't install the struts this way, as the play in the retract 90 degree rotation will allow the wheels to toe out badly. With the wheels outboard, with load on the wheels they want to toe in and that works better with the rotational play.

Overall, pretty happy, especially surviving the maiden on my highest wing loading model. Looking forward to getting used to it and doing some fine trimming in nicer conditions.

My electric setup predicts about 1300W at the 16x12 prop at 7300rpm (1480W from the battery), for a pitch speed of 86mph. After being a bit concerned about performance after the first flight, I'm a lot happier after the second, and it looks like I'll get better than 7 mins out of a 5000 6S.

A buddy turned up with his Corsair with an OS95 fitted. He got to taxi it but a strut came undone during taxi trials so I still have no good basis for direct performance comparison. However, his admittedly new and tight OS95 turned a 15x8 at 8400 rpm, which takes about 1000W to the prop and gives static thrust of 5.1kg and 65mph pitch speed. I'd expect the glow engine to pull significantly more revs in flight so I doubt mine will match his in performance, but I'll have the edge in convenience and reliability.

Had what looked like a fairly gentle nose over on the second landing, but it was firm enough to push the screws out of the end grain of the firewall and tear the balsa behind. The good news is that the cowl is pretty tough - not a mark, which leads me to question the mounting method of screwing into the end grain of the firewall.

My repair/alternate method is to make a couple of 90 degree brackets about 1/2" wide from some 30mm x 1mm aluminium strip.The brackets will be fastened to the front of the firewall and wrap around the front of the fuse, providing a firm anchor for the cowl screws.

ps I've figured out why there's nothing about these on the web - I have model serial no 4 and my buddy has serial no 8. I guess they're just not out there in any numbers.

hi guys , love this plane, flys so nice , I run a DLE-20 in mine , long flight time (15 mins) plenty of speed . I went for theE-Flite 100degree electric rotating retracts need a bit of work but no nose overs and more room inside the fuselage.
these phoenix Top Model ARF's are a bargain for what you get

was doing some beat ups yesterday (you need to change video quality to 720i)

Phoenix Top models Corsair (8 min 14 sec)

Originally Posted by mrgriz

hi guys , love this plane, flys so nice , I run a DLE-20 in mine , long flight time (15 mins) plenty of speed . I went for theE-Flite 100degree electric rotating retracts need a bit of work but no nose overs and more room inside the fuselage.
these phoenix Top Model ARF's are a bargain for what you get

was doing some beat ups yesterday (you need to change video quality to 720i)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfxt8udlSXo

Good to hear - I have the Top Model P-47 on hold at the LHS and was thinking small gasser for a change. Should be about the same fitting the DLE-20 to the P-47 as the Corsair.

Originally Posted by scirocco

Good to hear - I have the Top Model P-47 on hold at the LHS and was thinking small gasser for a change. Should be about the same fitting the DLE-20 to the P-47 as the Corsair.

the cowl is a tad more forward than it should be but that's no problem , on my corsair the DLE-20 is 150mm from firewall to prop , not sure how you would go on the P-47 as the cowl may be a bit shorter than the corsair , the problem is the carby needing a breathing area , one of the front mounted carby gassers would solve that .

I run one of those DLE silencers which keeps the bark down

good luck if you do it , awesome to have so much power , speed and super long flight times

What prop do you run on the DLE-20, and do you know what revs you get?

I was actually tossing up building a motor 'box' on the inside of the firewall, ie cutting out enough of the firewall to relieve the carby area and engine mount, and then building an auxiliary firewall behind that at the right distance back for the motor overall length. The aux firewall would only need to be about 15-20mm behind the firewall to get the design prop position.

That, or maybe just get the NGH Gt-17, which has a front carby as you suggest. My concern is I don't know enough about gassers to know whether the Gt-17 (or the 15cc RCGF which is small enough to fit unmodded) would be enough, although obviously the 20cc is heaps!

That engine sure fills up the cowling nicely. My electric looks very lonely in there.

Originally Posted by scirocco

What prop do you run on the DLE-20, and do you know what revs you get?

I was actually tossing up building a motor 'box' on the inside of the firewall, ie cutting out enough of the firewall to relieve the carby area and engine mount, and then building an auxiliary firewall behind that at the right distance back for the motor overall length. The aux firewall would only need to be about 15-20mm behind the firewall to get the design prop position.

That, or maybe just get the NGH Gt-17, which has a front carby as you suggest. My concern is I don't know enough about gassers to know whether the Gt-17 (or the 15cc RCGF which is small enough to fit unmodded) would be enough, although obviously the 20cc is heaps!

That engine sure fills up the cowling nicely. My electric looks very lonely in there.

the prop is a 17x8 , I have seen a gasser model with just the carby sticking through the firewall into the fuselage and it seemed to run fine.

I5cc gasser would be simlar to 90 two stroke , 20cc is around 120 size two stroke ,
guess the 15cc would be scale like speed

Grabbed a GT-17 at the LHS today. Not sure whether to retrofit it to the Corsair or put it in the Jug. Might do the Jug as electric first, then put the gasser in whichever is heavier/draggier.