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Old Jul 30, 2014, 03:38 PM
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Video
4D Outdoor Revolution

Hello:
One video:
4D flying RC - Unsustainable - Andrés Leoni (3 min 53 sec)
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Last edited by aleoni; Jul 30, 2014 at 04:11 PM.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 05:31 AM
Jan Spatny
Czech republic
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Amazing! Can you share more tech info, photos etc? Thanks!

Jan
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 05:45 AM
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It's pretty cool stuff!

I'm wondering how the pitch/collective control is done on the prop, if it's a separate control or whether it's just all done through a mix on the throttle. With say mid stick being nil power and moving the stick up or down both increases power and prop pitch? A bit like an RC car, but with pitch thrown in as well.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 06:10 AM
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Nice!

Can't wait for all the grumpy old 3D purists to start complaining about 4D hooligan flying.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 06:21 AM
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Nice, first time I've seen that in anything but a foamie.

Azarr
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke352 View Post
It's pretty cool stuff!

I'm wondering how the pitch/collective control is done on the prop, if it's a separate control or whether it's just all done through a mix on the throttle. With say mid stick being nil power and moving the stick up or down both increases power and prop pitch? A bit like an RC car, but with pitch thrown in as well.

Normally it's done through a throttle/pitch curve just like on a heli.
There's more info on the how (at a smaller size) in the Indoor Pattern/F3P forum.

Azarr
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azarr View Post
Normally it's done through a throttle/pitch curve just like on a heli.
There's more info on the how (at a smaller size) in the Indoor Pattern/F3P forum.

Azarr
So is mid stick idle/nil pitch?
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke352 View Post
So is mid stick idle/nil pitch?
I can't speak for the OP, but on my foamy I have it around 80/20 rather than mid stick. The props are particularly inefficient in reverse so it takes a lot of throttle. On a switch of course so you can go back to normal throttle.

Really, the best place to ask this is the F3P forum. RJ Gritter and Devin McGrath hang out there and they're the go to guys for VPP and VPP w thrust vectoring.

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Old Aug 03, 2014, 04:28 PM
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Hello !!



I would like to share some information about my project Unsustainable system (TVVPP - trust-vector-variable-pitch-propeller).



Back in 2009, Martin Muller presented first TVVPP system on indoor model. After I saw the video from World Air Games, it was very clear that this unit brings a lot of new maneuvers and possibilities. TVVPP system made a huge improvement over normal VPP system, developed also by Martin Muller. Shortly after this, I built TVVPP system on my indoor model and I was very happy with performance. In 2010 it was obvious that TVVPP system is the future of aerobatics, because a lot of such models had great successes in various indoor competitions. So I started to dream about big outdoor model, executing negative torque roll as low as possible, flat spins, back flips, etc... This desire was accepted like a totally unrealistic by many fellow pilots and modellers. But this didnt made me stop the project, basically I was even more motivated to make this happen, so I slowly started with development of Unsustainable system...

Meanwhile I noticed that I am not only one with such dream. I saw some videos from Markus Rummer from Germany, flying his VPP system on 40% models. Videos were very promising and he proved that it is for sure possible to make some VPP maneuvers on big scale models. So I continue with my project with even more motivation.

I made first successful tests with my prototype VPP system in September 2013. I tested the system on the bench stand; there was nothing wrong with props and pitch movement, Amps and revolutions measurements was OK and the system also seemed very safe. I decided it was time to start developing motor mount with trust vector. The main challenge was to make the whole system very solid and light at the same time.

In the beginning of 2014 I started to modify the model (Sebart Sukhoi 3D Monster with 2 metres wingspan) , according to my experiences from indoor models. Mass distribution and linkage are very important for VPP maneuers, so I put a lot of effort to make this perfect. Weight of this prototype is 5,6 kg RTF. For pitch control there is one servo with 44 kg of torque, for vector control there is one servo with 29 kg of torque. Motor runs with 10S LiPO and brings over 10kg of static thrust.

In April I made the successful test flight. In the first flight I concentrated mainly on system performance regarding precise maneuvers and 3D maneuvers. One of my goals was also to make a TVVPP system, which will have the same characteristics for flying this maneuvers like normal motors. I was very happy with performance and after 20 flights I started to seriously test TVVPP capabilities of the system. I was happy, but it seemed almost impossible to make low negative torque roll... So I decided to make some modifications on VPP unit, to make it even more strong and achieve better response. In July I made very important modification of props, which resulted in better efficiency of motor and reduced Amps. After this it was clear that it will be possible to make low controlled 4D maneuvers, so I decided that the development is over and that it is time to start fly a lot and improve the flying skills for such extreme maneuvers.

I needed to learn again how to fly TVVPP, because my experiences from indoor model didnt work very good on bigger model. The proper way to learn was to reduce power of the motor and try many different ways to execute the maneuvers. I also recorded videos and watch them to notice any mistakes and wrong corrections. Slowly I was discovering the tricks and the realization of the dream was closer and closer.

After more than 120 flights system and model stayed solid and I didnt have a single problem. Everything seemed very safe. My confidence in the model and systeam was increasing day by day and soon I executed first low negative torque roll. The feeling was amazing and unreal, almost like a dream. Unluckily I was alone at the airfield, so I didnt have the opportunity to share this great moment with other pilots. But it was amazing to make the dream happen.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 04:29 PM
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Here is the flying giants tread
http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=91585
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 04:32 PM
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Hello.

About the control of pitch/motor, all is done with the stick of motor. In the middle is zero pitch 10% of power, forward increase positive pitch and motor till the 100 % and backyard is negative pitch till the 100 %. All is proportional.
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Old Aug 03, 2014, 05:08 PM
Jan Spatny
Czech republic
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Impressive!

Jan
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Old Aug 04, 2014, 11:13 AM
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Thank you Jan Here more pictures.
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Old Aug 04, 2014, 11:29 AM
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Beautiful work.

Azarr
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Old Aug 04, 2014, 11:37 AM
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Switzerland
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Wow this is Perfect Andres!!

Very impresive.

I saw the videos from M.Rummer outside but this is looking much much better. It looks like a indoor Foamy where you fly!!!!
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