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Old Nov 24, 2010, 09:56 PM
Live to learn. . .
Rafa's CB100's Avatar
Austin, TX
Joined Dec 2009
1,489 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0grand View Post
Hey Rafa!

It is good to be flying again. Did you leave your Throttle Hold and and Idle Up switches in their original locations? The for the lading tip.

I get some minor tail wag I would like to sort out still.
I left the switches in the stock locations. It seemed natural that one would want your left hand on the throttle while switching to idle up with the right hand.

I haven't used the throttle hold right before a crash, but it also seems natural for throttle hold to be on the left, since one has already given up throttle control at that point.

I still get a bit of tail wag too. I've been playing with the gyro setting, but haven't quite found the sweet spot, I guess. Either that, or it doesn't have to do with the gyro setting.

Seeing that you've got 50+ packs thru bird so far, I would also mention that dkfuji had a belt snap at 20 something packs, I had one snap after ~35 packs I think it was. I can't say that I could have predicted it or seen a defect in the belt, so a replacement as maintenance might be advisable.

What kind of flight times are you getting? What voltage are you draining your packs to?

Rafa
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Old Nov 25, 2010, 12:09 AM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Changed the belt yesterday. I started noticing a lot of fiber dust on the tail. The new belt was quite a bit thicker than the one I replaced. I don't know if they changed the dimensions, or just tolerances. Maybe it was just worn. There were lots of loose fiber strands.

I can get over 6 minutes on a pack. I have an alarm device that sounds when the any cell drops to 3.3v. The performance noticeably diminishes before that though. It has an LED display and plugs into the balance plug. I just sit it on top of the battery and you can read the voltage through the canopy. I ordered another voltage alarm that alerts before 3.3v I thing will be better. I use the stock batteries and NRG 1300mah packs. The NRG came with 18g wire which didn't seem to deliver much punch (supposed to be 35C). I changes the wires to 14g and it is better. I also have a Hyperion 1800mah pack I haven't tried yet. I need a balance plug adapter for it which I should have later this week. I bought an X-Charger B6 which works great and can speed up charging significantly over the stock supplied charger.

Ideally I am trying to stop at 7.4 volts under load which seems to be about 6 minutes with the stock 1500 mah battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa's CB100 View Post
I left the switches in the stock locations. It seemed natural that one would want your left hand on the throttle while switching to idle up with the right hand.

I haven't used the throttle hold right before a crash, but it also seems natural for throttle hold to be on the left, since one has already given up throttle control at that point.

I still get a bit of tail wag too. I've been playing with the gyro setting, but haven't quite found the sweet spot, I guess. Either that, or it doesn't have to do with the gyro setting.

Seeing that you've got 50+ packs thru bird so far, I would also mention that dkfuji had a belt snap at 20 something packs, I had one snap after ~35 packs I think it was. I can't say that I could have predicted it or seen a defect in the belt, so a replacement as maintenance might be advisable.

What kind of flight times are you getting? What voltage are you draining your packs to?

Rafa
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Last edited by ri0grand; Nov 27, 2010 at 06:26 PM.
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 03:03 PM
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rew-7's Avatar
UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
398 Posts
Hi guys,

I already know that some of you have run the Esc on 3S but has anyone tried the standard motor, or would this need an upgrade.

Thanks
Andy
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 04:39 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,706 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
Hi guys,

I already know that some of you have run the Esc on 3S but has anyone tried the standard motor, or would this need an upgrade.

Thanks
Andy
Stock motor didn't support 3S, even with 2S on stock Esc it already generate a lot of heat! You have to upgrade stock motor .
AC
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 05:16 PM
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rew-7's Avatar
UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
398 Posts
AC
Thanks for the info.
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 07:23 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,706 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rew-7 View Post
AC
Thanks for the info.
I've gone for 3S , extremely powerful and quite nervous!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post16360072
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 08:21 PM
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Australia
Joined Jun 2010
1,611 Posts
A friend of mine with a 4F200 and myself have both had troubles with the tail box screws stripping out. Could somebody tell me whether you guys have found any tail box swap out from other heli?

eg: does the TREX250, HK250, GuruZ, etc tail box, swap out? even if it has to go back to two blade tail rotor?

What are the alternatives?

Mick
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Old Nov 27, 2010, 09:02 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,706 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
A friend of mine with a 4F200 and myself have both had troubles with the tail box screws stripping out. Could somebody tell me whether you guys have found any tail box swap out from other heli?

eg: does the TREX250, HK250, GuruZ, etc tail box, swap out? even if it has to go back to two blade tail rotor?

What are the alternatives?

Mick
HK250 did well the job (Trex 250 too but more $) , only need a thin shim either on one half to prevent shaft to move.Also, you can use HK250 tail box to replace stock 4F200 by keeping only stock shaft/belt pulley.I use big vice to press out 4F200 tail pulley shaft and replace with hardened shaft and even with hard landing it never bent again, only tail blades need to change. 4F200 tail boom can fit tightly into HK250, by this way you can make tail boom longer and use 2 blades . HK250 tail box is way stiffer than 4F200.
And yes, you can use 2blades from HK250 kit but will lost 3blades look from stock!
AC
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Last edited by Alwayscrash; Nov 28, 2010 at 08:53 PM. Reason: add pics
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 04:07 AM
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Australia
Joined Jun 2010
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Thx AC, your a champion
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 01:16 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
My stock motor has a lot of radial play due to the shaft wearing a groove around the bearing. I took it a apart and it looks serviceable but where can I find a replacement shaft?
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 02:00 PM
Addicted Again
Wylie TX
Joined May 2009
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bravo47 View Post
Ok got it sorted and flying again. I ended up pulling a second 4F200 that I purchased from a friend and checking the head setup, and I still had the setup wrong which messed up the phasing. After a successful hover in near dark im putting it to rest for today so I can go out on a positive. Nice to get that vibrating training gear back off as well.

One question though. Ive noticed my new port side servo seems to inititialise in differant positions sometimes. I set it up and test and things look fine, then the next time I initialise my heli will lurch right and when I check my swash its out because the port servo looks like its up one cog. The time after it may return to correct position. Is this some known querk of Walkera servo's or RX's?


Mick
I noticed this too. I changed servos and the problem seems to be gone for now. Do you still experience this?
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 03:16 PM
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rew-7's Avatar
UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
398 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
I've gone for 3S , extremely powerful and quite nervous!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...3#post16360072
Hi AC

I'm interested in your experience both with the 3S and your HK250/Trex250 parts swap.

First, do you use the belt from a Trex250 if you swap the boom? Standard 4F200 belts don't last very long-so I've been looking for another option.

How does putting a longer boom on effect the gyro (mine is quite waggy/gainy already as standard).

I have no experience of 250 parts and keep seeing the Trex tail booms described as long boom, are there two options with the Trex and therefore different belt lengths as well?

Could you post a pic of 4F200 boom next to a Trex boom to compare the lengths (I got a Trex belt of Ebay to try in the 4F200 and its way longer so I'm trying to see what sizes are involved). If you have a 4F200 already fitted with the Trex boom a pic of that would be great too.

Are any other Trex parts compatible with this heli? Main shaft or head?


On to the motor and 3S.

How long do you set your timer for on the 3S 800mAh your using?

I'm either going to convert my 2S 1300mAh to 3S or buy some new 3S batts what would you say is a good size balance for this heli? [My reasoning for converting my 1300's is this would balance my heli nose to tail weight wise. But I don't want to make it too heavy(as a complete heli)-nobody seems to be using anything bigger than 1000 mAh for 3S in 250's.]

Last question-honest...

I have this motor http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idproduct=8143 on order for my 3S conversion with 13,14 or 15t pinion what would you try first?

The pinions will fit the HK/Trex250 main gear so I'm hoping they will be ok meshing with the 4F200!

I would of tried your motor but missed your post and already got this ordered. Sorry for all the questions but it seems you've already done exactly what I have been thinking about. I know I've asked a lot so just answer when you have the time. It would be great if I could pick your brains in future.

Thanks
Andy
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 03:40 PM
"you'll play to live "
Alwayscrash's Avatar
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Sep 2009
1,706 Posts
Hey Andy,
I've just post some pics about tail modding for 4F200.Trex250 boom is longer than F200 so if you wants to have more tail authority just swap in Trex boom onto stock F200 near tail servo( just do some good measurement and cut off stock F200 leaving enough space to insert Trex boom on it and use CA.This way, you still use stock tail fin.servo holder.....Use kevlar belt for Tr250 will last longer than stock, make sure all screws on tail box aren't too long which can reach belt and gave premature wear.

-Stock 4F200 tail boom measures: 22.5cm
-HK250: 25 cm


Beside tail rotor assembly, only drive belt pulley(near main gear) is compatible with F200.
-For 3S, i put 5' on TX timer but flight time is more than that(about 8' sport flight) using 30A Esc and new motor.
Making heli nose heavy and using heavier blades will make a lot of difference! that's a good idea .
I'm using these upgrades and so far my bird is very docile and flight time is on average 6~8', Esc & motor is very cool in touch, even after 3 packs !
-Esc: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110455544593
-motor: http://cgi.ebay.com/4800KV-Outrunner...ts_Accessories
(don't worry,this motor can handle 3S and runs cool).
HK motor seems don't have enough rpm for this heli , DK have mentioned on his earlier post that stock motor has 6000kv!Don't forget to use smaller pinion with 3S,i use CB180D stock motor pinion on new motor(1 tooth less than stock).Stock F200 main gear pitch is way difficult to find for matched pinion so i use CB180 one's which match perfectly.I'm still looking for a pinion with less teeth for lowering HS a bit(actually, it's 6200 which makes scarying noise when start...sounds like a vacum dirt cleaner!).
Hope this help
AC
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Last edited by Alwayscrash; Nov 28, 2010 at 04:00 PM.
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 05:15 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2010
482 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alwayscrash View Post
Digital servos:
Buy these DS470 servos from HK: https://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/...idProduct=8510
I notice with high speed digital servos, there's a lot of changes comparing with stock servos (slow and sluggish), i even disable 3axis gyro and have full control like a traditional flybar heli.There's no more "tip-over" and bubling symptom . I did get some heart attack on first test flight with too much throtle when lift-off (without canopy) : heli hits the wall on main blades, no severe damage, just some scuffs on plastic main blades, all cyclic servos are safe, only tail rotor shaft is bent !These servos are really stiff! I use to replace stock servo each time heli rolls over!?

Just some experience for share with members , do it at your own risk,LOL!
AC
Did you know why you hit the wall on lift-off? I just finished to install those DS470 servo today and I had to reverse the servo rotation in the TX, then after the set-up completed, I go to a test fly outside, I lift-off, hover for 4 - 5 second (not too high to feel the new servo reaction) then the heli suddenly bank left for no reason and crashed......

After a long inspection and some test I found the problem, the servo input is well reversed in the TX and all work very fine exept that the axis gyro in the receiver are not reversed and still make their correction in the wrong direction.

Is there a way to reverse the axis gyro movement, or I will have to change the motor polarity in both servo?
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Old Nov 28, 2010, 05:20 PM
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rew-7's Avatar
UK, Leeds.
Joined Mar 2009
398 Posts
Thanks AC

I have that Esc ordered, and I've made an offer on the motor (waiting on pay day-again).

Andy
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