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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:49 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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I'm not at all sure how this is even possible... If you use FIXED ID, even if you set the same fixed ID on a D8 and a D10 the RX will only bind to one of the two. The FIXED ID appears to be a prefix/suffix/hash to the TX code which is sent to the RX. So even with 2 identical TX I would have thought it was almost impossible.

Though, without having the source code or hacking it like Deviation it would be difficult to say for certain.
Maybe ask over on the Devo Hacking thread?
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 02:44 AM
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United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
I'm not at all sure how this is even possible... If you use FIXED ID, even if you set the same fixed ID on a D8 and a D10 the RX will only bind to one of the two. The FIXED ID appears to be a prefix/suffix/hash to the TX code which is sent to the RX. So even with 2 identical TX I would have thought it was almost impossible.

Though, without having the source code or hacking it like Deviation it would be difficult to say for certain.
Maybe ask over on the Devo Hacking thread?

Oh it happens. Some how even spektrum has done it. If you look on youtube you can find a few videos of people flying 2 or more heli with one TX.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
yes it is sort of my bad not having the first heli unplugged. will really have to make it a habit now.... but how could a Devo 7 bind with a ladybird cross controlled the v450 that was bind to my Devo 10....? unless both were set to the same ids....? no idea at all... n funny was my Devo 10 wasn't affecting his ladybird but his Devo 7 is controlling mine n me on the other hand was trying to counter all the funny movements until it crashed.... I've put on a 3gx blades n these blades are just so good compared to the originals.....



Yeah, well i binded my V120d02 once and set the TX down. Went and got a sandwich and came back and knocked the throttle stick. It went flying across the room. That was fun. Just be safe, thats all i can say. I'm guilty myself.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:47 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Oh it happens. Some how even spektrum has done it. If you look on youtube you can find a few videos of people flying 2 or more heli with one TX.
I can see you could 'force' it to happen quite easily. Set two RX with the same FIXED ID from the same TX and then turn on TX, turn on both RX. I can see this would have the same result, but random mode binding should be more difficult... though I've never actually tried it and it's only as good as the firmware which means taking care for sure.

I only like to have one thing powered up at a time. Not only from a safety PoV but I just don't like to waste my electrons!
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:03 AM
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iflyhelis's Avatar
United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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That happened so quick you probably didn't have time to hit throttle hold which would have stopped the tail from spinning.

I have my finger on the TH switch at all times, no hunting for the switch, it has saved me a few times.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
had a really bad crash just then on my v450. been flying it for months n first crash. damn! apparently my fren who was flying his ladybird with Devo 7 bind with my 450... I do not know how..... replaced main gear, blades, feathering shaft and ball links.... up flying again now..... but if u guys r using Devo tx n flying with another Devo, pls make sure u check that u have a safe bind....
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
so i was using my iphone to post the message yesterday and couldn't really explain what happened.....

now i have a devo 10 tx.beleive it or not.... i HAD 4-5 occasions where the tx bound with 2 of my helis and I COULD fly both of them at the same time....what happened each time was i did not unplug the first heli....i went to choose another model.....turned the tx off....turned it back on with the new model...n plug the second heli on.....(having the first one still with battery attached).....n both were under the same control!!!! i never had such an issue with 2801....but after yesterday's incident of where my fren's devo 7 crossed control my v450....i was actually quite mad at how the hell could these devo txs could have cross frequency binding..... grrrrr.....didn't cost much to repair n only 30 mins of my life....but it was allllll unnecessary.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenechong View Post
yes it is sort of my bad not having the first heli unplugged. will really have to make it a habit now.... but how could a Devo 7 bind with a ladybird cross controlled the v450 that was bind to my Devo 10....? unless both were set to the same ids....? no idea at all... n funny was my Devo 10 wasn't affecting his ladybird but his Devo 7 is controlling mine n me on the other hand was trying to counter all the funny movements until it crashed.... I've put on a 3gx blades n these blades are just so good compared to the originals.....
Well, it is quite strange if it really happened that way.
Are you sure you could control your v450 with your devo 10, or is it possible, that it was bound only to his devo 7?

In theory the rx cannot be bound to two different transmitters wether they use the same fixed id or auto-bound, because the transmittion is kinda encrypted (XOR-ed) with the rf chip's manufacturer id, which should be unique for each chip.
However you can easily control two or more models with one transmitter if they all use auto binding or have the same fixed id...

About the second message:
Beware, the original devo firmwares stay bound when you change models!
They continue sending the new data with the previous id wether it was random or fixed!
However, even this way, you could control a second model only if it has the same fixed id, because it has very small chance to generate the same id, which it used before, and it won't send binding packages, so only a model with fixed id could "join in".

Make sure your every model using a different fixed id!
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 07:45 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Originally Posted by iflyhelis View Post
That happened so quick you probably didn't have time to hit throttle hold which would have stopped the tail from spinning.

I have my finger on the TH switch at all times, no hunting for the switch, it has saved me a few times.
Yep - I really need to practice my TH-ing... but this I think comes more with real flying practice rather than anything else... I always wonder in cases like that whether I could have saved it if I'd really stayed calm and panicked a little less. A bit of forward elev and I would have stopped the rearward flight and maybe got a hover back... again - real life practice is required...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Yep - I really need to practice my TH-ing... but this I think comes more with real flying practice rather than anything else... I always wonder in cases like that whether I could have saved it if I'd really stayed calm and panicked a little less. A bit of forward elev and I would have stopped the rearward flight and maybe got a hover back... again - real life practice is required...
Yeah, real life practice helps. Nothing better to learn how to prevent a crash then doing it a few dozen times
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:05 PM
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United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
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Good old throttle hold , i have been practicing this for 2 weeks now. I can take heli up ,on sim, to as high as i can and land under no power everytime now. Even inverted autos, but only on sim, and i may never do it as a trick , but its a must to learn if the worst happens. I auto every time i land the 600 , i was told it kills the headspeed, but the 450 doesnt do it lile the 600! Even with my 3800 rpm headspeed lol.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:17 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Yeah, real life practice helps. Nothing better to learn how to prevent a crash then doing it a few dozen times
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Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Good old throttle hold , i have been practicing this for 2 weeks now. I can take heli up ,on sim, to as high as i can and land under no power everytime now. Even inverted autos, but only on sim, and i may never do it as a trick , but its a must to learn if the worst happens. I auto every time i land the 600 , i was told it kills the headspeed, but the 450 doesnt do it lile the 600! Even with my 3800 rpm headspeed lol.
Yep - I'm not great at AR in the SIM but I can do it 70% of the time... but you always know when you're going to lose power - I know you can set failures but it doesn't compare to seeing something physical not doing what you want!

As you say Integrity... only way to do it is to do it for real... problem is I don't crash the V120D02S so often anymore!

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough?

Parts are on their way from China... should be here in 7~10 days.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
Good old throttle hold , i have been practicing this for 2 weeks now. I can take heli up ,on sim, to as high as i can and land under no power everytime now. Even inverted autos, but only on sim, and i may never do it as a trick , but its a must to learn if the worst happens. I auto every time i land the 600 , i was told it kills the headspeed, but the 450 doesnt do it lile the 600! Even with my 3800 rpm headspeed lol.
I find that doing 5 foot autos on my X5 is effortless and NOTHING like the sim. Well maybe close. But the X5 really seems to have a superior drive train and is exceptionally "friction few". Which may explain why it's head speed takes SOOO long to degrade. Even after power off. If it keep the pitch in neutral it will take like 5 minutes to spool down

It helps i have been keeping up on oiling everything. But still, from the start you could just tap it's blades and it would set the rotor spinning easy as anything. I can't leave it on top of my car in the wind here because when i come out of my back seat door and lift my head, the wind auto rotating it will clip me in the head!

Gaui X5 - Parked autorotation from wind (0 min 0 sec)


Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Yep - I'm not great at AR in the SIM but I can do it 70% of the time... but you always know when you're going to lose power - I know you can set failures but it doesn't compare to seeing something physical not doing what you want!

As you say Integrity... only way to do it is to do it for real... problem is I don't crash the V120D02S so often anymore!

Maybe I'm not trying hard enough?

Parts are on their way from China... should be here in 7~10 days.
Don't get me wrong, the simulator has it's place. But it's never the same as what your really flying. Never is, but it's great to practice and learn 3D. You will slowly transition things into real flight without even realizing your doing it. Are you using the Align main gears? they are much cheaper. Anyway, good luck with the repair.

I had a thought. Did you by any chance adjust the trims on the TX after you bound it? I had an incident where after binding i noticed the rudder trim was pushed far to one side while i was holding the TX. I set it to center and lifted off. The heli started to spin out. I had countered it manually, but i had to give very hard rudder to do so. The gyro had registered the trimmed position as the zero point reference and when i centered the trim it thought the new trim setting was input by me. Make sense? Just a though, and a warning, i suppose.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:20 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
...

Don't get me wrong, the simulator has it's place. But it's never the same as what your really flying. Never is, but it's great to practice and learn 3D. You will slowly transition things into real flight without even realizing your doing it. Are you using the Align main gears? they are much cheaper. Anyway, good luck with the repair.

I had a thought. Did you by any chance adjust the trims on the TX after you bound it? I had an incident where after binding i noticed the rudder trim was pushed far to one side while i was holding the TX. I set it to center and lifted off. The heli started to spin out. I had countered it manually, but i had to give very hard rudder to do so. The gyro had registered the trimmed position as the zero point reference and when i centered the trim it thought the new trim setting was input by me. Make sense? Just a though, and a warning, i suppose.
Yep - using the Align mains but since I didn't even have time to get into ST1 and given the way it went in I think I had the throttle at 0 or very close so no damage to the gears. I'm wondering now if the pinion has slipped, it was only 10T and the set screw had a thread or two only to hold it, so I added a little thread lock on the shaft... need to check if the pinion is still attached...!

Possibly what had happened was that I used a new model and had forgotten to set the Gyro rate to 75% so the first couple of times I tried spooling up it started to spin off the bat but then I realised my error, set the gyro rate and tried again. I didn't rebind, but it shouldn't really make a difference - you should be able to flip between rate and HH without rebinding. Maybe it was vibes affecting the Gyro?... but it flew just fine in a test hover before I took it out... confused...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Yep - using the Align mains but since I didn't even have time to get into ST1 and given the way it went in I think I had the throttle at 0 or very close so no damage to the gears. I'm wondering now if the pinion has slipped, it was only 10T and the set screw had a thread or two only to hold it, so I added a little thread lock on the shaft... need to check if the pinion is still attached...!

Possibly what had happened was that I used a new model and had forgotten to set the Gyro rate to 75% so the first couple of times I tried spooling up it started to spin off the bat but then I realised my error, set the gyro rate and tried again. I didn't rebind, but it shouldn't really make a difference - you should be able to flip between rate and HH without rebinding. Maybe it was vibes affecting the Gyro?... but it flew just fine in a test hover before I took it out... confused...
Stupid gyros.
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 12:53 AM
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Joined Jun 2011
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well after crashing the v450 the other day....my thoughts of having the v450 as a non-crash heli is gone....initially this is the heli that i would just keep n not crashing it....oh well now i've crashed it once....i didn't bother to look after it while flying anymore.....

so yesterday i took it out and really had some balls flying it with all the 3d moves that i never thought i would have done in real life....so i went on with all the piro flippings and side tic tocs that i've been doing in the sim....

initially it wasn't as smooth and i nearly crashed it again so many times....but all good....i was so happy yesterday i kept telling my gf how i went with flying on the field....n obviously the reaction was....'watever....' =(
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Old Nov 20, 2012, 05:07 AM
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United States, MA, Norton
Joined Aug 2012
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Well some good news finally, after my transmitter failure & crash I finally got a test flight in. No more sub-trims on rear pitch & rudder at 45% I did the bind with all trims centered.

The V450 was rock solid & flew around like it was on rails. Now to take it out where I have some more room to fly instead of in this side street next to my house.

So I think the original TX had some problems, it would not fly straight & level with the trims centered, I had to compensate so much I ran out of trim, & had to use the sub-trims. I was going to mechanically adjust the links, but the pitch link is a pain to take off. So it looks like I have no need now, this thing is setup perfectly.
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