Old Skool Phase 6 - Page 3

DrFragnasty · Oct 14, 2009, 02:38 AM

Out of the bag, the orange paint isn't brilliant, contaminants in the paint.

The black was from an elderly auto acrylic spray can and that was great.

Released from the mylars easily. Both halves need another day of 15-17 deg c to cure fully.

I expect the leading edge to be crap and extra paint needed to remedy. It's easy enough though; mask off everything but the LE, spray orange on top, let set, turn over, spray black from on top, let set.

I love the "zen" of vac-bag model making. You need to exert self-control and patience to resist opening the bag early, you need finesse when handling cloth & resin, you need a precise sequence of steps for it to work and you need patience to let the paint dry before you can do any lay-ups.

It's a great example of Gestalt: where the whole is more than the sum of its parts...and I've only made a tailplane!

Chris.

Hexosex · Oct 14, 2009, 10:47 AM

Fantastic!

Totally get what you are saying. The whole process for me is like baking a pie and putting in an over to cook. The end product is the sum of its parts.

Did you make that bag up just for the elevator? Or is it more reusable?

hweeler · Oct 14, 2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFragnasty

It was just 1/16th sheet balsa over white foam cores Eric. The wing was built in 1-piece with a fibreglass wrap dihedral brace. 1 wing hold down bolt at the trailing edge and a 3/4" dowel at the leading edge located into F2.

Chris,
Nice work your doing here. With your updated modifications and construction techniques adapted to the Phase 6, what sort of performance improvements are you anticipating of this Old School design?

Eric

DrFragnasty · Oct 14, 2009, 04:19 PM

Made the bag Hexo. It's not a biggie; I'm using "proper" bag material from a fibreglass supplies shop. Simply fold the 60" wide material over and seal the open side with a low-heat solarfilm iron, then bag clips either end. It's re-usable if you limit the amount of resin on the outside of the mylar taco.

As for flight performance improvements; less drag, better energy retention, better knife edge.

I'm off downstairs armed with coffee to work on it.

Chris.

Synergy1 · Oct 14, 2009, 04:32 PM

looks like a good build, dont think i could be bothered with all that efffort bagging stuff though, it doesnt look easy, A phase 6 is a classic traditional model, might as well have mouldie or a JART if i want mega performance and slipperyness. I suppose its worth it if you particularly like the shape of the P6's classic lines though.

A model T ford could be made better if we fit a modern engine, its better again if we fit modern seats, its better again if we put modern suspension on it, its better again if we streamline it a bit, its better again if we add air con. ..eventually its no longer a model T.

Hexosex · Oct 14, 2009, 04:39 PM

I don't like the looks of Jarts, and I know a good few other people that don't, probably don't have the balls to say it out loud though

I have no idea about performance other than it looks fast but not that agile.

The phase 6 is a very elegant model and has stood the test of time. My 20 year old one flew last year, but was then put away as the elevator link came loose and its a bugger to repair.

Bagging is very easy, just time consuming, that's all.

hweeler · Oct 14, 2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrFragnasty

As for flight performance improvements; less drag, better energy retention, better knife edge.

I'm off downstairs armed with coffee to work on it.

Chris.

Chris,
With all the extra mods and improvements on this old schooler, do you have an idea based upon a percentage number what all this work will net in the end? Just curious as it seems like a lot of work that may only get you a few percentage points of flying improvement. But thats cool, this is after all a hobby.

EJ

DrFragnasty · Oct 15, 2009, 02:15 AM

That's the attraction Eric; all this work might be a quantum leap forward in flight performance for the Phase 6 or it might be a Shakespearean tragedy ;0)

I like to build...which is the other attraction. It's also practice for my next project:

http://www.seat.org.au/projects.html

The Nexor!

Chris.

Hangtight · Oct 15, 2009, 03:15 AM

Percentage improvement?

100% satisfaction!

Hexosex · Oct 15, 2009, 05:47 AM

Well said hangtight! I think its a great project, very worthwhile.

DrFragnasty · Oct 19, 2009, 07:09 AM

WIP; spars.

Sanded the spar slots with a block made from busted joiner.
Not perfect but good enough, but deep enough for the cloth spars
and spackle will fill the rest.

Bottom spar is 2/3 span, with 2 extra layers over the joiner.

Top-side uses full length spar consisting of one long spar fabric then 2/3rds long spar fabric then 1 slightly longer than joiner box.

It's the first time I've done it this way and it seems to be working; the thicknesses work out and the alignment is OK.

1 wing done, the other curing.

Chris.

DrFragnasty · Oct 22, 2009, 05:32 PM

2 applications of spackle and the spars are smooth; this method's success can only be guaged after the wings are bagged.

I have reservations about the fidelity of the section now; it's an e374 mod now.

Chris.

DrFragnasty · Oct 22, 2009, 08:42 PM

Next on the list:

1. make a cavity for servo leads for ailerons/flaps
2. make and attach root ribs which include incidence pins & a cavity for an MPX connector
3. paint over the orange tail
4. secure pushrods/ rudder and elevator servo mount and add turtledeck
5. beer

FYI: ballast for this ship goes inside the wing joiner: 4 slugs adds 600g

cynjon · Oct 22, 2009, 10:06 PM

Looking good Chris...yet another plane we have in common. I've always loved the "old school" look of the Phase 6. It's a pretty nice flyer as well!

I *wish* mine was done with a 2-piece wing though...there are times it just doesn't get dragged to the slope because of the hassle of the 1-piece wing. Wish I had done it with dual aileron servos as well...live and learn. And having a mid-fuselage wing that is NOT a plug-in type makes for a very weak point in the fuselage. Yours will be MUCH stronger...

dav3uk · Oct 22, 2009, 10:46 PM

Hi cynjon nice phase 6... i can see you point about the weakness in the fuz....however as was designed here in the UK we have very few rocky site like you in the usa. my 6 lasted about 12 years the ply sides helped there, it never broke at the wing (just about everywhere else tho....ha ha) I did a 1.5 size one a long time ago and although was a direct scale up never thought it flew as well as the orig....but i do like the look of it even if it is old school (perhaps so am i) may well dust off a plan and make one with plug in bagged wings for old time sake.......lol.

Oct 14, 2009, 02:38 AM	#31
DrFragnasty Double Coat TimTams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Launceston Tasmania Posts: 608	Angels Sang...or at least yodelled Out of the bag, the orange paint isn't brilliant, contaminants in the paint. The black was from an elderly auto acrylic spray can and that was great. Released from the mylars easily. Both halves need another day of 15-17 deg c to cure fully. I expect the leading edge to be crap and extra paint needed to remedy. It's easy enough though; mask off everything but the LE, spray orange on top, let set, turn over, spray black from on top, let set. I love the "zen" of vac-bag model making. You need to exert self-control and patience to resist opening the bag early, you need finesse when handling cloth & resin, you need a precise sequence of steps for it to work and you need patience to let the paint dry before you can do any lay-ups. It's a great example of Gestalt: where the whole is more than the sum of its parts...and I've only made a tailplane! Chris. Attached Thumbnails 118.9 KB · Views: 91

Oct 15, 2009, 02:15 AM	#38
DrFragnasty Double Coat TimTams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Launceston Tasmania Posts: 608	I like 2 build That's the attraction Eric; all this work might be a quantum leap forward in flight performance for the Phase 6 or it might be a Shakespearean tragedy ;0) I like to build...which is the other attraction. It's also practice for my next project: http://www.seat.org.au/projects.html The Nexor! Chris. Last edited by DrFragnasty; Oct 15, 2009 at 02:44 AM. Reason: anal retentive

Oct 19, 2009, 07:09 AM	#41
DrFragnasty Double Coat TimTams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Launceston Tasmania Posts: 608	WIP Spars WIP; spars. Sanded the spar slots with a block made from busted joiner. Not perfect but good enough, but deep enough for the cloth spars and spackle will fill the rest. Bottom spar is 2/3 span, with 2 extra layers over the joiner. Top-side uses full length spar consisting of one long spar fabric then 2/3rds long spar fabric then 1 slightly longer than joiner box. It's the first time I've done it this way and it seems to be working; the thicknesses work out and the alignment is OK. 1 wing done, the other curing. Chris. Attached Thumbnails Shim to get equal depth top and bottom for the spars. 89.2 KB · Views: 41 Test fit...looks wonky but the far end of the joiner box isn't sitting flat. 94.5 KB · Views: 36 A bit of sanding with sanding block made from busted joiner to make the spar slots. 90.5 KB · Views: 44 2/3 span long fabric, then 2 more shorter spar fabrics to covre the joiner box. 89.4 KB · Views: 43 Last edited by DrFragnasty; Oct 19, 2009 at 07:12 AM. Reason: illogical spock

Oct 22, 2009, 05:32 PM	#42
DrFragnasty Double Coat TimTams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Launceston Tasmania Posts: 608	WIP Spars spackled 2 applications of spackle and the spars are smooth; this method's success can only be guaged after the wings are bagged. I have reservations about the fidelity of the section now; it's an e374 mod now. Chris. Attached Thumbnails spackling applied to spar (Red Devil brand from Bunnings)...it's exactly the same as the stuff I paid too much for from the local hobby shop. 99.7 KB · Views: 49 Wing will be jigged/aligned before waxed joiner gets a bog filler around the fuz sides then left to set. 88.4 KB · Views: 43 I'm not worrying about wing/fuz fillets. 85.6 KB · Views: 42 Orange tailplane is going; I've gone off orange ;0) 105.9 KB · Views: 61

Oct 22, 2009, 08:42 PM	#43
DrFragnasty Double Coat TimTams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Launceston Tasmania Posts: 608	Wip Next on the list: 1. make a cavity for servo leads for ailerons/flaps 2. make and attach root ribs which include incidence pins & a cavity for an MPX connector 3. paint over the orange tail 4. secure pushrods/ rudder and elevator servo mount and add turtledeck 5. beer FYI: ballast for this ship goes inside the wing joiner: 4 slugs adds 600g

Oct 14, 2009, 10:47 AM	#32
Hexosex Byte my shiny metal @ss Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 616	Fantastic! Totally get what you are saying. The whole process for me is like baking a pie and putting in an over to cook. The end product is the sum of its parts. Did you make that bag up just for the elevator? Or is it more reusable?

Oct 14, 2009, 04:19 PM	#34
DrFragnasty Double Coat TimTams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Launceston Tasmania Posts: 608	Made the bag Hexo. It's not a biggie; I'm using "proper" bag material from a fibreglass supplies shop. Simply fold the 60" wide material over and seal the open side with a low-heat solarfilm iron, then bag clips either end. It's re-usable if you limit the amount of resin on the outside of the mylar taco. As for flight performance improvements; less drag, better energy retention, better knife edge. I'm off downstairs armed with coffee to work on it. Chris.

Oct 14, 2009, 04:32 PM	#35
Synergy1 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 183	looks like a good build, dont think i could be bothered with all that efffort bagging stuff though, it doesnt look easy, A phase 6 is a classic traditional model, might as well have mouldie or a JART if i want mega performance and slipperyness. I suppose its worth it if you particularly like the shape of the P6's classic lines though. A model T ford could be made better if we fit a modern engine, its better again if we fit modern seats, its better again if we put modern suspension on it, its better again if we streamline it a bit, its better again if we add air con. ..eventually its no longer a model T.

Oct 14, 2009, 04:39 PM	#36
Hexosex Byte my shiny metal @ss Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 616	I don't like the looks of Jarts, and I know a good few other people that don't, probably don't have the balls to say it out loud though I have no idea about performance other than it looks fast but not that agile. The phase 6 is a very elegant model and has stood the test of time. My 20 year old one flew last year, but was then put away as the elevator link came loose and its a bugger to repair. Bagging is very easy, just time consuming, that's all.

Oct 15, 2009, 03:15 AM	#39
Hangtight If it ain't broke...break it! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South Coast, UK Posts: 869	Percentage improvement? 100% satisfaction!

Oct 15, 2009, 05:47 AM	#40
Hexosex Byte my shiny metal @ss Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cornwall, UK Posts: 616	Well said hangtight! I think its a great project, very worthwhile.

Oct 22, 2009, 10:06 PM	#44
cynjon Not in Kansas anymore Toto... Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rapid City, SD Posts: 2,387	Looking good Chris...yet another plane we have in common. I've always loved the "old school" look of the Phase 6. It's a pretty nice flyer as well! I wish mine was done with a 2-piece wing though...there are times it just doesn't get dragged to the slope because of the hassle of the 1-piece wing. Wish I had done it with dual aileron servos as well...live and learn. And having a mid-fuselage wing that is NOT a plug-in type makes for a very weak point in the fuselage. Yours will be MUCH stronger... Attached Thumbnails 93.6 KB · Views: 65

Oct 22, 2009, 10:46 PM	#45
dav3uk Slopejunkie Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Uk South Wales Posts: 138	Hi cynjon nice phase 6... i can see you point about the weakness in the fuz....however as was designed here in the UK we have very few rocky site like you in the usa. my 6 lasted about 12 years the ply sides helped there, it never broke at the wing (just about everywhere else tho....ha ha) I did a 1.5 size one a long time ago and although was a direct scale up never thought it flew as well as the orig....but i do like the look of it even if it is old school (perhaps so am i) may well dust off a plan and make one with plug in bagged wings for old time sake.......lol.

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