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Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:32 PM
Koo
A semi-advanced FPV newbie
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Eneloops are over rated. Tenergy centuras are virtually the same and you get $2 shipping from USA.
http://www.all-battery.com/centura-c...ries10321.aspx
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:48 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Post deleted as duplicate ..

Nigel
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:55 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Originally Posted by Mike_Then View Post
...and that's the EXACT reason why I went away from NiMH packs in my Futaba 10CHG and went with a 9.9v 2200 mAh LiFePO4 pack.
My NiMH are 2300mAh ... so I have more capacity than you.

Quote:
No wall-wart chargers to dig out from who-knows-where,
an I have some of those cells please ... seems from this comment - they charge themselves ? or maybe they just pick up electrons from the surrounding air ? My chargers sit on a purpose laid out shelf behind my desk ... I put Tx back on shelf ... charge plug is right there same place. That's true for all my Tx's

Quote:
no having to remember to charge the night before,
I spend weeks away from home on assignments ... I get back home and pick up Tx and fly .. my NiMh have over 9hrs capacity and also charge stays there for months ... did I mention that they are only standard over-counter Grundig NiMH AA's of which a set of 8 is l;ess than $10 ?

Quote:
no NiMH cells to cycle.
Oh Dear that tosh ... a Tx is a low power draw item and there is absolutely no requirement whatsoever to cycle NiMh cells for use in a Tx. You're good to go on day one.

Quote:
I get about 10 hours out of the 2200 mAh pack and if I forget to charge it, I simply charge it at the field with my existing charging infrastructure in minutes and I'm good to go.
Based on above where you state you don't have to find wall charger ... .. no surprise that you then have to charge at field !! Just joking with you OK ...

Seriously - apart from you being able to charge in minutes against my longer lower charge rate, but lets be honest we are not charging from flat anyway ... there is absolutely no difference to my NiMH set-up apart from one major point ... My B6 charger can charge my NiMH via the built-in factory charge socket - no need to remove pack to charge. If you are charging your LiFe pack via factory provided socket in case at high rate .. you are courting disaster as it's not designed with it's diodes, charge circuitry etc. to suffer high amps ... 1A is usually a factory socket max.


Quote:
I know the OP said LiPo, but I use LiFePO4 so I don't over-zap my expensive radio. Nothing wrong with Eneloops, but I use what works for me. YMMV.

Fine but your LiFe similar to LiPo has not shown any real advantage over my NiMh ... and I can replace my NiMh at local supermarket ... so even if a cell fails, I actually carry a fully charged spare set in my field box, I can nip to the supermarket nearest to flight site and pick up replacements ...


KISS ... that's my principle ...

Nigel
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:12 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Baldwin View Post
........... With the Lipo, I can charge through the balance port without removing the battery from the radio using the same charger I use for my flight lipos in about an hour. As far as I can tell, the only down side to using Lipos in my transmitter is that it makes Mark nuts.


Dan
Have to say that the only chargers I have that charge via the balance lead are the cheapo RTF chargers I have and I wouldn't like to charge a Tx LiPo with any of them ...

My B6 charger puts charge through the main power leads of the LiPo and monitors via the balance lead .. mmmmmm

I think I'll stick with my normal chargers and also the Prolux that charges Tx / Rx via delta peak at up to 1A ... that's fast enough to do it in good time as they are never run that low ...

Nigel
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
Have to say that the only chargers I have that charge via the balance lead are the cheapo RTF chargers I have and I wouldn't like to charge a Tx LiPo with any of them ...

My B6 charger puts charge through the main power leads of the LiPo and monitors via the balance lead .. mmmmmm

I think I'll stick with my normal chargers and also the Prolux that charges Tx / Rx via delta peak at up to 1A ... that's fast enough to do it in good time as they are never run that low ...

Nigel
I charge my transmitter battery using an Accucel 6, or a 4 port charger. I made up a charging cable that connects the main charging lead to the balance plug.

I'm not sure that people understand my position on lipos in a transmitter. I am NOT a proponent of it. In the case mentioned by the OP of this thread, lipos would be a downgrade. In my particular case, lipos solved a charging problem I had, gave me the ability to fly whenever I wanted without having to charge the night before, and raised the capacity of my transmitter battery pack from 600 mahr to 2500 mahr. It was the best alternative for me at the time, and I have no regrets about it, but Lipos in the transmitter are not for everyone.

Dan
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Baldwin View Post
gave me the ability to fly whenever I wanted without having to charge the night before
I wonder where the mistaken notion arose that NiXX must be charged the night before. I typically will let my transmitter batteries (Eneloops) drain until the transmitter alarm goes off, at which point I will land. If I still wish to fly more that particular day, I simply hit my Eneloop pack with 1A for 15-20 minutes and this provides several more hours of flying. I will then place my Tx on the 50mA wall charger when I get home and leave it there for a few days.

I repeat the above process once a month or so. Easy peasy.

Mark
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
I wonder where the mistaken notion arose that NiXX must be charged the night before.
Because you ran them flat the day before that?

Normal NiMH cells do need to be charged within a few days of use if you want to get most of the capacity out of them, they self discharge pretty fast. Not eneloops obviously.

I use a LiPo in my DX8 for 2 reasons, the factory pack was a dud (one really weak cell) and it is now charge and forget. The TX charges at 200mA (which is too much for trickle charging IMO) so you need to stop the charge before the pack gets hot. With LiPo the pack itself has a cutoff built in so you can just leave it.

Frankly, modern chargers should come with a Li battery built in (like every other electronic device these days).
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:17 AM
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Just put a 4000mah lipo in my DX7s as the stock NiMH would lose a fair amount overnight. The stock battery was only 2 months old. So far the lipo hasn't been touched for over 2 weeks with about 5 hours of flight time and is only down to 8.1v. Granted, had the stock NiMH held a decent charge I would have never even considered changing it out but so far I'm impressed with the lipo. My old DX6i will hold a charge forever with the stock batteries. Have no idea why there's so much diference between the two Tx's.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 10:11 AM
Canadian Bacon
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My DX8 did the same thing when I bought it. Lasted about 2 months and took a dump. I put the HK 7.4 lipo in it and never looked back.

Gord.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:33 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
I wonder where the mistaken notion arose that NiXX must be charged the night before. I typically will let my transmitter batteries (Eneloops) drain until the transmitter alarm goes off, at which point I will land. If I still wish to fly more that particular day, I simply hit my Eneloop pack with 1A for 15-20 minutes and this provides several more hours of flying. I will then place my Tx on the 50mA wall charger when I get home and leave it there for a few days.

I repeat the above process once a month or so. Easy peasy.

Mark
Exactly ... and in fact no need to pay Enerloops price either !!

My Grundigs are fine for ages without need to charge. But just for peace of mind I plug in my 50mA chargers to my Tx's ... with 2300mAh NiMH's in my Tx's ... 50mA charge rate can be left indefinitely connected to Tx without harm.

I did a test for Wattflyer some time ago on my NiMH which were over 2 yrs old ... I ran down my Tx till low voltage alarm sounded ... it was well over 9hrs. Note as said - this i on NiMH charged as above ... and over 2 yrs old. I suggest that you might be lucky to have a LiPo provide such long life and as good as new so long after ... ?? With people fast charging the LiPo's, 2 years ?

Nigel
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertstalker View Post
Because you ran them flat the day before that?
On 2300mAh NiMh ? You kidding ?

Quote:
Normal NiMH cells do need to be charged within a few days of use if you want to get most of the capacity out of them, they self discharge pretty fast. Not eneloops obviously.
In fact most NiMh are low self discharge nowadays ... and that's a statement by a battery tech pal of mine who's in the biz. It's 2013 now ... not 1950 !!

Quote:
I use a LiPo in my DX8 for 2 reasons, the factory pack was a dud (one really weak cell) and it is now charge and forget.
What capacity LiPo pack do you use now ? 2000mAh ? What makes that better than my 2300mAh NiMh ? Nothing.

Quote:
The TX charges at 200mA (which is too much for trickle charging IMO) so you need to stop the charge before the pack gets hot. With LiPo the pack itself has a cutoff built in so you can just leave it.
Oh Dear ... 1950 again !! A standard older OEM RC wall charger of 50 - 100mA can be left literally indefinite on todays higher capacity NiMH ... but of course on older low capacity - you work on the 14hr / 10th rule.
A modern RC charger such as my Prolux charges NiMH at up to 1A through the Tx socket ... and has Delta Peak detection to cut of main charge rate at full. It then reverts to trickle charge ...

So please explain to all - what advantage you have .. so far each point has been negated ...

Quote:
Frankly, modern chargers should come with a Li battery built in (like every other electronic device these days).
Sorry ... charger or item ?


Oh well ... the argument goes on ...

Nigel
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solentlife View Post
On 2300mAh NiMh ? You kidding ?
On a good day I could easily run the stock 2000mah NiMH down to low voltage on my DX7s. Due to the fact I could charge it to 5.5v the night before and by the next morning it would be 5.1 to 5.2v it was definitely self discharging at an alarming rate. Granted, this was the Spektrum battery.



Quote:
In fact most NiMh are low self discharge nowadays ... and that's a statement by a battery tech pal of mine who's in the biz. It's 2013 now ... not 1950 !!
It's obvious this is 2013 as the Internet wasn't even around in 1950 so we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we?


Quote:
What capacity LiPo pack do you use now ? 2000mAh ? What makes that better than my 2300mAh NiMh ? Nothing.
My guess since he has a Spektrum is that it's a 4000mah just like the one I put in my DX7s. Nearly twice the capacity as your tiny little 2300mah so nearly double the flying time. I would say that's much better.


Quote:
Oh Dear ... 1950 again !! A standard older OEM RC wall charger of 50 - 100mA can be left literally indefinite on todays higher capacity NiMH ... but of course on older low capacity - you work on the 14hr / 10th rule.
A modern RC charger such as my Prolux charges NiMH at up to 1A through the Tx socket ... and has Delta Peak detection to cut of main charge rate at full. It then reverts to trickle charge ...
The standard wall charger that came with my DX7s is a 200mah charger. It will fry NiMH batts if left connected too long. I see no reason to go buy a standard "old 1950's" wall charger to keep from overcharging my NiMH Tx batts in the event I forget to unplug them. With 2 modern iChargers I see no need to buy old 1950's technology. Had the stock NiMH held up I would have gladly charged it with either the stock wall charger or either of my iChargers.

Quote:
So please explain to all - what advantage you have .. so far each point has been negated ...

For me, the advantage of putting a lipo in my Tx was simple. I could purchase a battery off the shelf at my LHS that was plug and play for my Tx (the DX7s and DX8 take a battery pack with a connector that plugs into the Tx). So far it has basically no self discharge as it's been 3 weeks now and 6 hours of flight time and still at 8.1v. My old DX6i has been sitting for 2 months without being charged and the stock Spektrum NiMH batts in it are still at 5.3v. I see no reason to change that one over to lipo. Had my DX7s battery worked this well I would have had no reason to replace it.

The point I'm trying to make here is no one is trying to say that their battery is better than someone else's battery. It all boils down to what work best for each individual. IMO this discussion is no longer a discussion, but more of a pissing contest. Folks come to these forums to learn about this hobby and make the most of it, not to read a bunch of bickering between each other. There are pros and cons to most anything so I feel it's best to put factual, unbiased information on these boards to help people make a decision based on their needs and what works best for their individual situation. I hope I haven't stepped on any toes (at least not too hard) as that's not what I intended to do. And Nigel, I'm not singling you out by any means but your post was just the easiest to quote from. Again, we're all here to learn and most importantly to have fun in this hobby. As the infamous Rodney King once said, "can't we all just get along".

Shane
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:19 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
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No problems Shane ...

My reason for quoting 2000mAh ... is that is what I usually see as the LiPo replacement in Tx's. If a person can fit a 4000mAh - then marvelous - I agree it is near 2x, but then again - it's not in actual use though ... LiPo will not like discharging as low as the NiMh and will be damaged if it even approcahes NiMh low levels. So real use capacity is significantly less than 4000 ....

As to my using 1950 ... that was just a figure to say technology has moved on from dumb chargers ... most Nixx chargers now are Delta Peak and will cut of at full charge.
And if Spekie supply a 200mA charger ... mmm makes me wonder why ... for such a charger I wqould expect a comparable pack to be 10x that at 2000mAh so that you have the 14hr charge .. and lets be honest - if you have correct 10th set-up as long as you don't forget and leave it for days - it should do no harm. Most chargers in that league are not constant current ... which would damage seriously if forgotten even for short time.

Totally agree that this should not be a p***** contest and I do not post to be in one ... my posts are to show that NiMh can be used and used favourably. Many of the LiPo arguments used are when looked at overall not the benefit as claimed. Basically gone are the days of dumb chargers, 600mAh NiXX's, and the reasons to replace NiXX with LiPo ... but as said if Tx has provision and set-up for LiPo ... then by all means it makes sense. But as we all know - there are those who advocate modifying radios to take LiPo .. which to me is work for works sake ...

If I had a Spekie and it was fitted out for LiPo - then I would use that. But I don't. I have radios .. JR and others that are all NiXX based ... they all work ... they all give me long use time .. they all stand on shelf and hold charge for good period ... and all charge as designed via the charge socket.

Nigel
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
If I had a Spekie and it was fitted out for LiPo - then I would use that. But I don't. I have radios .. JR and others that are all NiXX based ... they all work ... they all give me long use time .. they all stand on shelf and hold charge for good period ... and all charge as designed via the charge socket.
You know, I do find it odd that the Spektrum charging system is designed to automatically stop charging a lipo when it is fully charged yet can't do the same for the NiMH battery that comes installed. Once I found this out I made a charge lead and would only charge the original 2000mah Nimh with my smart charger which unfortunately didn't help the battery life. A flying buddy of mine just sold his DX6i and bought the DX7s and is already experiencing short battery life and excessive self discharge. There are several 4000mah lipos out there that drop right into the Spektrum Tx which is designed to use either and in this case are well worth it.

I work way too much so when I get the opportunity to fly I take full advantage of it. I can say that so far I'm really impressed with the lipo. Not because it's a lipo, just that it holds up forever. Had the stock battery held up half as good I would have gladly saved that $50 (well, I'm sure I would have spent it on something else RC).
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 11:32 PM
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Sounds strange that the Nixx dies and the LiPo holds charge in the radio ... I agree that NiXX will not hold as long as a LiPo ... but it should be long enough even on supermarket NiXX to not be a problem.

Must be a circuit difference in the radio ? Maybe the Tx has more fitted to cater for the LiPo and in so doing makes it a better option there.

Then of course you say the older DX6i holds OK on NiXX ...

I work away for weeks at a time ... this particular assignment I'm near 1 month in Singapore .. will get home in maybe 3 - 4 days from now. My Radios were all charged when I left on 7th Jan ... standard Grundig AA NiMH's ... that's 2 x 9X, 1 x 6EH, 1 x Syma RTF, 1 x JR Propo 8ch, ... all will be fine to fly when I get home w/o having to charge before.
I do admit that for peace of mind - I do where possible plug in the 50mA chargers if possible just to make sure. But I do know that I can fly without charging ... and with the 9X for 9hrs or so ... similar to when just of charger.

Nigel
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