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Old Aug 04, 2012, 06:30 PM
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just got back from a full test flight of the apache with new spinblades 600 size, my cyclic wobble issue is gone as far as i can tell. the Heli in general feels like a completely different bird. so much more stable, and was handling the breeze no problems. i need to increase my amount of positive pitch because i had it low on my apache / tf model semi symmetrical high lift only required, 6deg, so i will go up to 8 now with the symmetrical blades and ill be away laughing! STOKED.

placing an order for 1 more set of 4 spinblades for the blackhawk, and a set of 5 for the hughes. i cant see the point of continuing to fly my other helis on anything else now.

jose & jan, u will be well impressed!

edit: also my flight time has gone from 6 to 8.30 with 20% residual battery. results!
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 04:38 AM
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But its a nice bird you have there Jay the big fuel tanks ad a lot to it :


cheers jan. yeah it just doesnt look the greatest without the tanks. very plain.

jan can you tell me, on your apache, did you make the peto tube fins or did you order them?
Jay I do not understand what you mean with the peto tube?

Jan,
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by JayNZ View Post
just got back from a full test flight of the apache with new spinblades 600 size, my cyclic wobble issue is gone as far as i can tell. the Heli in general feels like a completely different bird. so much more stable, and was handling the breeze no problems. i need to increase my amount of positive pitch because i had it low on my apache / tf model semi symmetrical high lift only required, 6deg, so i will go up to 8 now with the symmetrical blades and ill be away laughing! STOKED.

placing an order for 1 more set of 4 spinblades for the blackhawk, and a set of 5 for the hughes. i cant see the point of continuing to fly my other helis on anything else now.

jose & jan, u will be well impressed!

edit: also my flight time has gone from 6 to 8.30 with 20% residual battery. results!
Is that with the flapping head and spine blades on the apache?
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 04:34 PM
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Jay I do not understand what you mean with the peto tube?

Jan,
these are the little air sensors and "fins" you added to your apache.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 04:35 PM
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Is that with the flapping head and spine blades on the apache?
yeah double cats cnc 4 blade head, 600mm spinblades.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 02:30 AM
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these are the little air sensors and "fins" you added to your apache.

OK I made them myself Jay.
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 05:37 PM
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ah cool thanks jan,

Jose have your spinblades arrived yet?

i just ordered 700 size ones for my blackhawk for extra lift and a more scale look because the 600 disk looks too small. even with the 700 size blades on the 600 size blackhawk i will have 8cm of clearance between the main and tail rotor blades.

I also ordered a set of 5 for my hughes. cant wait!

I had an accident with my apache the other day(lost my orientation because i was standing on a hill looking down onto her whilst doing stationary pirouettes, slammes her down hard, and did some damage to air intake and tail boom, broke a ball link in one of my phase arms, and bent my main shaft. $75usd from tf models to replace all the fudelage parts. i will need to drill out the broken thread from the ball link and re-tap it. hopefully the feathering shaft isnt bent. ill know soon enough.

ZERO DAMAGE to my spinblades blade that struck the tail and intake. thats kevlar for you. Lucky!
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Old Aug 10, 2012, 05:45 PM
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ah cool thanks jan,

Jose have your spinblades arrived yet?

i just ordered 700 size ones for my blackhawk for extra lift and a more scale look because the 600 disk looks too small. even with the 700 size blades on the 600 size blackhawk i will have 8cm of clearance between the main and tail rotor blades.

I also ordered a set of 5 for my hughes. cant wait!

I had an accident with my apache the other day(lost my orientation because i was standing on a hill looking down onto her whilst doing stationary pirouettes, slammes her down hard, and did some damage to air intake and tail boom, broke a ball link in one of my phase arms, and bent my main shaft. $75usd from tf models to replace all the fudelage parts. i will need to drill out the broken thread from the ball link and re-tap it. hopefully the feathering shaft isnt bent. ill know soon enough.

ZERO DAMAGE to my spinblades blade that struck the tail and intake. thats kevlar for you. Lucky!
Oh Man sorry to hear about the mishap. No, my spinblades have not arrived yet. Last time I ordered stuff from Germany to the US it took about 10-14 days give it or take a day or two.

Need pictures of the Blackhawk with those blades.

You could order a replacement head form these guys. This is the same head for $99.00 plus shipping. You can get the head but they don't have spare parts for it yet.

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/CopterX-...duct_info.html
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 03:32 AM
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Hi Jay,


Thats cool and not that expensive that TF helps you out.
Knowing the photo's I seen of it
About TF models, how long ago did you order those parts?
Because I want know more about there electro driven tail rotor but I cant contact them?

You go for 700 size blades, how about the head-speed then?. Do you keep it the same or are you lowering it a bit, otherwise you get in trouble with the tail response.

Any reaction from RCA about the faulty parts yet?

I have the Kit in house now and indeed it looks great and for sure BIG the epoxy looks great and the gel-coat quality is better than the Smartmodels/TF Apache.
I have taken a close look at the parts that you have trouble with and I can not find any fault yet but it looks tiny in comparison with the rigid heavy duty looks of the Smartmodels tail gear.

Regards,

Jan,
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Old Aug 11, 2012, 11:42 PM
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Oh Man sorry to hear about the mishap. No, my spinblades have not arrived yet. Last time I ordered stuff from Germany to the US it took about 10-14 days give it or take a day or two.

Need pictures of the Blackhawk with those blades.

You could order a replacement head form these guys. This is the same head for $99.00 plus shipping. You can get the head but they don't have spare parts for it yet.

http://www.ehirobo.com/shop/CopterX-...duct_info.html

Hi jose, cheers man, nah its not that bad. im lucky because she came down hard and really it could have been game over but luck was on my side.

for the head, all i need to do is drill out and re-tap the phase arm so i can fit a 2m ball link in the old hole. i have emailed double-cats.com who make the heads i fly to ask if they supply replacement parts so hopefully i will hear back soon.

as soon as the blades arrive i will mount them and upload a pic for you.
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Old Aug 12, 2012, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Horseman View Post
Hi Jay,


Thats cool and not that expensive that TF helps you out.
Knowing the photo's I seen of it
About TF models, how long ago did you order those parts?
Because I want know more about there electro driven tail rotor but I cant contact them?

You go for 700 size blades, how about the head-speed then?. Do you keep it the same or are you lowering it a bit, otherwise you get in trouble with the tail response.

Any reaction from RCA about the faulty parts yet?

I have the Kit in house now and indeed it looks great and for sure BIG the epoxy looks great and the gel-coat quality is better than the Smartmodels/TF Apache.
I have taken a close look at the parts that you have trouble with and I can not find any fault yet but it looks tiny in comparison with the rigid heavy duty looks of the Smartmodels tail gear.

Regards,

Jan,
Hi jan,

we have a black hawk on site!!!!!! awesome man i cant wait to see you get started! are you going to do a build log?

I emailed susan from tf models on tf_model@yahoo.cn (.cn - not .com) and every time i get a reply back within a few hours? she is great and speaks decent english.

the spinblades blade sets come with a detailed analysis spreadsheet giving appropriate headspeeds for each type of blade they manufacture. According to their data, a 4/5 multiblade head with their symmetrical blades sized between 620mm and 710mm should be run at no more than 1700rpm.

Thats perfect for the hughes, as she is running 1600rpm. The blackhawk is running 1350, the apache 1250. i have issues with the tail of the blackhawk at the moment i need to tell my gyro that my tail is now spinning CW because the smartmodel tail drive turns that way, and also, i cannot get a smooth movement of the rudder. its very sticky turning right so i think carbon pushrods are required. im going to modify the Gaui X7 pushrod system to take care of that.

The elbow drive from RCA ran fine until the bearing incident which chewed them out, BUT....Just for complete peace of mind, I would get yourself another smartmodel raised tail drive Jan. you can see how much more robust it is now huh?

I heard back from Robert at rc aerodyne and he said he has forwarded my case onto cliff to decide wether or not they will replace my parts. ive told him ive already ordered another SM raised tail drive and if its possible to just get the bearing block and brass cog replaced and maybe a credit for the elbow drive. im still waiting to hear back.

On another note, remember the place i recommended for apache cockpit panels? robcon-rc.com? i complained to stan, the boss there, because my panels were never completed, and mentioned i think their customer service sucked. He came back to me sincerely apologetic and admitted he had "goofed up", and that he will now give me the panels for 20% discount, plus free shipping to new zealand, AND Redeemable gift vouchers for robcon-Rc site. WHAT A GUY! i felt bad after that, so im giving robcon a big thumbs up for making things right. ill let you know how the panels look once they arrive. im going to use the vouchers on one of the apache chaff dispensers. Happy customer!

Take care guys hope you are all well.
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 03:19 AM
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Hi Jay,

Yes there will be a build log

I have mailed Susan and indeed next morning she replied

And it seems that the IMDS will fit into the tail area.

I'm wondering how the tail will behaving when you use a tailrotor at a angle of 10 to 20 degree
I use a Helicommand Rigid for the four-blade and maybe he compensate the weird trust the tail rotor will create but I do not have a clue.

So as someone here has experiance with this, please let me know,

Regards,

Jan,
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Old Aug 13, 2012, 03:33 AM
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Hi Jay,

Yes there will be a build log

I have mailed Susan and indeed next morning she replied

And it seems that the IMDS will fit into the tail area.

I'm wondering how the tail will behaving when you use a tailrotor at a angle of 10 to 20 degree
I use a Helicommand Rigid for the four-blade and maybe he compensate the weird trust the tail rotor will create but I do not have a clue.

So as someone here has experiance with this, please let me know,

Regards,

Jan,
Hi jan, I have experimented with pivoting the tail rotor blade on the tail boom of my pod and boom t-rex 600 before i had it in the apache, and before i had raised tail drive system, and the tilted tail rotor had very little effect on flight. it wasnt as much as i suspect you will be looking at tilting, but none the less, im sure it will be fine.
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 08:49 AM
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Angled Tail

The angled tail on the full sized UH-60 series of helicopters was meant to compensate for the heavy tail. The tail rotor added lift as well as compensating for the main rotor torque! However, this only works with a CCW rotating main! With a CW rotating main the tilted tail rotor would have the opposite desired effect!
Iíve been looking over how the DD tail motor kit that I have mounts and have come to the conclusion that without major modifications, the only tilt that we would be able to achieve with it is either a forward or rearward angle along the axis of the raised tail mounting tube!
The only benefit with going with this type of tail drive unit would be to reduce the weight in the tail by no longer requiring a torque drive shaft , tube, gears and the adjustable elbows!
Scale looks for the UH-60 Blackhawk (without major modificationís) is not just a drop in solution with this kit!

Originally I was going to install this kit in my UH-1B, but now Iím thinking it may work better in my UH-60 Blackhawk, since the 4 blade mains will be turning slower than the 2 blade mains in the Huey, I could independently adjust the tail rotor speed to compensate for the slower tail rotor speed that I would be getting from a torque drive or belt driven system.

This setup should work out perfectly so long as you remember itís just a substitute for other raised tail systems and not intended to be a scale angled tail rotor system that mimics the ones as seen on the full sized Blackhawks.

Ron
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Old Aug 15, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Hi jan, I have experimented with pivoting the tail rotor blade on the tail boom of my pod and boom t-rex 600 before i had it in the apache, and before i had raised tail drive system, and the tilted tail rotor had very little effect on flight. it wasnt as much as i suspect you will be looking at tilting, but none the less, Im sure it will be fine.
Hi Jay,

I have a Align T-Rex 600 ef with a belt so I adjust the tail rotor to a angle of approx 20 degree and started her up.
Well I was prepared for anything but the experiment was real uneventful

With the spooling up I noticed that the tail was trying to tip the heli over, but that was caused by the not yet in sink running tail giro.
That problem was solved in a moment

It feels a bit different however no problem at all, and when the horizontal mode from my helicommand is armed you see no difference at all.

I have from Susan (TF) models the dimensions from the electro motor they use in there IMDS system.
It will not fit entirely so you need to modified the existing housing on your tail (the existing housing must be a bit extended lower) .

So its possible but indeed its NOT a turn key solution, however (I think) the best solution to get a decent angle of at least 15 degree.

And running the head CCW is possible but most scale blades are asymmetrical CW running.

And you can make your tail removable also and when you go for the full 100% you do a radio controlled folding tail .
Don't hit the switch in flight then.....

Ron,

Thanks for the explanation of the reason the tail rotor is tilted that way.
I thought to get more room for the enormous tail blades they have.

Do you have photo's of you DD/IMDS sticking in the tail of the BlackHawk just for the idea?

Regards,

Jan,
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