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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:14 PM
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R.M. Gellart's Avatar
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Banjo, how does running the clock till the ship stops sliding stop dorks? I know that is how the ABQ guys do it, but that kind of leaves me behind as to how that helps any with "dork" landings. If a guy nails his time and dorks the ship, he is still better on most occasions that the guy that slides and hopes he stops sliding on the target. Just asking?

Marc
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jcstalls View Post
I am liking the runways landing suggestion better now with more thought and some experience back in recent SC2, plus the newer suggestion of stopping the clock when the plan stops. Makes sense.
I did not make it into the modern LMR with these new fangled electronic items now ALES, this year. Next Year.
The number one pet pea that I have with current USA ALES, is the ultra precise landing required that can damage ships.

Jared, to make a 45 point landing, you have to land in an ~2M circle, how tough is that? I agree that the landing strip to me makes even more sense, but with the way the rules are coming it is up to the CD as is usual.

Note: I was wrong Jared, a 45 landing is inside a 4M diameter circle, again, not that tough is it?

Marc
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:18 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
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Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Kindrick View Post
If you make a tape or runway landing for a tie breaker beyond the timed aspect of the flight time points we will figure it out as soon as possible.

Since I have the first hand knowledge of what took place during the thrown prop incident at Visalia there is no one data point to have a discussion on with my situation. The prop was an RF. It was not beat into submission on a landing yet could have been compromised in its shortened life. It would be nice to have some real data to work with but I cannot see any RF data on the web to use.
Kieth,

After I blew the Aeronaut, I took a more healthy interest in these prop ratings. I could not find any ratings for the RF props online so I contacted them directly and they furnished me with the specific data for the props that I was using.

When I get home, I will look through my notes, but I do recall that the RF props were rated maybe 30 or 40 percent higher than their comparably sized Aeronaut. On that basis alone, it seems somewhat less likely that this failure was from overspeed or abuse.

In the mean time, you might try contacting them directly to get the specs on the prop that failed.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:19 PM
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classic!
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Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
Banjo, how does running the clock till the ship stops sliding stop dorks? I know that is how the ABQ guys do it, but that kind of leaves me behind as to how that helps any with "dork" landings. If a guy nails his time and dorks the ship, he is still better on most occasions that the guy that slides and hopes he stops sliding on the target. Just asking?

Marc
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:45 PM
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Don,

Any data you have would be appreciated. Send me a PM and I will exchange an e-mail address with you.

Thanks again,

Keith
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:20 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
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USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
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I'm not sure why the interest in limiting the launch height to 150 meters (for non beginners)? At TD contests my average launch height, if I hit it, is right around 200 meters, and many out launch me. It doesn't seem to be a problem in those events and no one has suggested shortening the winch line to give lower launch heights. If it's good enough for TD flying why should it be different for ALES?
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:36 PM
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The reason for limiting the launch height is because there is supposed to be some soaring aspect to the competition. 200 meters is pretty high for a 3.6 m or better F3J type... LJ
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:25 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
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USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
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Yes, Larry. But as I mentioned, that launch height (200M) is regularly achieved in TD flying, so why not shorten the winch line to make for lower heights? Why is this idea not good for both TD and ALES?
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:28 PM
Red Merle ALES
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United States, Mt, Helena
Joined Apr 2002
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Moldies...

Some folks have more money than time and others have more time than money, I guess there are those with neither, I happen to fall in the middle category. I am not willing to pony up the dough for those wonderful (worth every penny) moldies coming out of the shops. So I made my own! It takes a little practice to perfect the foam cutting, vacuum bagging and pod and boom making but once you have done so you can make an ALES eSupra for about $200-$250. That is just for the model alone, not the bagging equipment, pumps foam cutter etc. but you don't need all the fancy equipment either.

Now for the shameless plug because I am allowed but I even made instructional DVD's on how to do so. My goal is to get folks building and flying composite planes who are on a budget.

Winning with what you built from scratch is very rewarding too!

Here is mine: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...9#post21541984

Curtis
Montana ALES
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:35 PM
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United States, MA, Waltham
Joined Dec 2001
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I've been to 3 or 4 ALES contests. Lots of fun, and appears to be much easier on the CD, which should be a major point in it's favor.

As far as landing goes, I've seen all the arguments before, ad nauseum. If there will be no real landing task, I'd like to be issued a suit of armor unless my flying area is at least 50 yards away from the other guy. On a good day, it's almost inevitable that some sort of landing task will be required to separate the leaders, and IMHO it greatly increases the safety by providing an incentive for good control.

Dorking will happen much more if some kind of skid or arrestor is not allowed. In that case I'd like to be issued a pair of greaves, as even a woodie 2 meter smacking into your leg can hurt quite a bit. If you don't believe that eliminating skegs and the like causes harder dorks, look at video of F3B or F3J landings on the international level. A compromise might be a skeg that is behind the t.e. of the wing.

I think the existing 5 or 10 points per meter is not a bad compromise for now. Later, it will be found a bit lax, I expect.

I think that a glider optimally designed for ALES will be a pusher. Much less fuselage drag that way, and the prop won't be damaged in any landing that isn't a crash. One could do a twin boom job or put a little motor pod, probably on the wing, on either side of the fuselage. Makes launch a bit dicy if you don't turn on after the throw, but there are probably solutions for that. Maybe a pressure switch when you hold it while throwing, with a 1 second delay after its released.

One feature of ALES that brings the cheaper gliders closer is that the airframe doesn't have to be as strong, and it doesn't have to be strong or a moldie to launch about as high as the other guy. I expect a builder who is very careful and precise won't be at much of a disadvantage if he builds something like an electrified Bubble Dancer. And for a while at least it may be a use for some old contest gliders that are considered a little obsolete.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 08:58 PM
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Miamisburg OH
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One of the interesting aspect of ALES at the moment is that there is a variety of sailplane designs showing up to fly the contests. If and when the dust settles and only moldies fly ALES I think it will be less interesting because they all will look alike.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:27 PM
Making wood fly since 2007
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USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
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I think the easiest way to deal with dork landings in ALES is to simply design the landing task such that maximum points can be achieved without dorking. Some pilots will always want to dork their planes regardless of the landing task, more power to them. So long as I have a reasonable chance of attaining max landing points without being required to dork her in I'm fine.

The runway landing sounds like fun, I may have to try one of those at one of next years events. Just a point of clarification on them, is there only one "runway" or is there one for each launching station?

Wayne
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:37 PM
Flying = Falling (Slowly)
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Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Lueke View Post
One of the interesting aspect of ALES at the moment is that there is a variety of sailplane designs showing up to fly the contests. If and when the dust settles and only moldies fly ALES I think it will be less interesting because they all will look alike.
John,

Consider the possibility that this is just another one of those things that will just constipate the "half empty" guys and will ultimately be resolved by the "half full" guys. Right now we have rules that are sorting themselves and which may drive the planes that today's "movers and shakers" fly in some particular direction (maybe toward moldies.) Maybe this will drive beer cooler flyers away. This would be unfortunate for everyone.

But it is also a sort of silly notion. If there is a demand for a different experience for some of us who don't want to fly moldies, for example, there is nothing to keep like minded "half full" guys from making it happen. And, as much fun as we are having, there is every reason to believe that we WILL get there. The guys who have gotten us this far have done a great job. It is incumbent for those of us who want something more or different to do more than "wish" things were different.

I like moldies. Not because I am good enough to fully use their capabilities, but because I like flying them. Other guys are going to like something else. And while I have no earthly idea what might come about, I am confident that if what is being offered right now does not meet a significant unfilled need, that many of those needs will be met by the kinds of creative people who are attracted to this activity.

It's all good.

Happy Landings,

Don
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:53 PM
Mesa AZ, it's a dry heat!
USA, AZ, Mesa
Joined Oct 2004
616 Posts
Ales

I cannot resist the temptation to add my 2 cents in here.
I have flown about 15 ALES contests so far, and have enjoyed every one of them, from 5 entires to over 20, they were all enjoyable, even the one where I finished last! Not all were won by the guys flying expensive airframes, but all were won by guys flying WELL and landing WELL.
I have seen Radians win contests in the hands of experienced fliers, I have seen an e-Gentle Lady finish well up the order (3rd I think) against much more expensive hardware. The common denominators are PRACTICE and SKILL developed over many hours of thermaling and landing and launching again and doing it over and over.
If my flying is poor on one day, I only have myself to blame, not my equipment, which I am responsible for anyway, or the weather, the landing task, or the length of the grass or anything else. It is all MY effort which makes the difference.

This is the greatest sport since hi-start launched thermal soaring , and I for one will support it all the way.

Respectfully.

Iain
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 10:34 PM
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Albuquerque, NM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OVSS Boss View Post
Banjo, how does running the clock till the ship stops sliding stop dorks? I know that is how the ABQ guys do it, but that kind of leaves me behind as to how that helps any with "dork" landings. If a guy nails his time and dorks the ship, he is still better on most occasions that the guy that slides and hopes he stops sliding on the target. Just asking?

Marc
It doesn't completely stop dorks if the pilot can cut it close enough to dork exactly at the end of the time window. But in our experience it's easier to get within a few seconds of the end and then slide it in and stop right at the end of the window, hopefully. It's also a lot easier on the airplane. I wouldn't dare try a dork with my Cumulus and Magic. It would shatter the pod.
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