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Old Oct 09, 2013, 10:59 AM
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EAGLE A3 super questions and answers

Hopefully this will be a area that one can ask questions in regards to the A3 super 3 axis gyro system. This product is fairly new to the market ,version 2 was just released, which allows you to adjust the master gain from the transmitter while flying. The other big advantage of the A3 Super, you can switch between HH mode,rate mode, self level mode , stable mode all while flying. what this means you can take off in HH mode some call it Heading Hold mode-this allows you to take off in a straight line. Once airborne you can switch to Rate Gain or some call it Stable Mode. Then you can use the Master gain knob that you set up on your transmitter to adjust the gain while flying.

To down load the manual go to http://www.hobbyeagle.com/

You can read about all the features and benefits this new 3 axis gyro offers to the market, all at a reasonable price $59 to $65 Which includes the A3 super and the program Box with servo wires and a USB cable and USB card. With the programmer Box you do not have to drag your Laptop to the field to setup the A3 Super. But for guys that can't live without their Laptop you do have the USB cable that is provided to adjust the setup at the field But another huge advantage for multiple- planes you only need one programmer Box. This way you only buy the A3 Super unit @ $35 to $40ea. for all your other planes
For the last year I was using another 3 axis gyro until the A3Super came out. My experience, so far has been 100% satisfaction. It has all the features that I was looking for and then some, all at a reasonable price.
Guys that fly Warbirds will really enjoy using the A3Super. Tail draggers become a dream to fly instead of a nightmare and the 3D flyers can practice all stunts that seem impossible to do until now

As I learn more about the A3 Super I will post my findings. If and when I find time I will try to make a video on how to program and set it up.
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Old Oct 09, 2013, 12:02 PM
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I have been following this product with interest. Thanks for the thread.
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Old Oct 09, 2013, 04:55 PM
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Note that the A3 Super can support Dual Elevator servos, as well as Dual Aileron servos at the same time. For eg the EagleTree Guardian does not support Dual Elevators. These can be useful in aircraft (typically jets) with Tailerons. Or even some flying wings that use split elevons to allow "Duckerons" to be used.
So it is just a useful extra feature/function that can be of use in more complex models.

The reason you might want Dual Ailerons is that the device then gets an RX channel signal for each Aileron, which then allows the TX to be set up to control Differential Ailerons, or Flaperons, or Spoilerons. The device can tell these motions are in use and just passes their operation straight through, whilst still doing the rest of its Roll control job.
A typical use of Dual Elevators is to allow Tailerons (jets usually), which are elevators that can move up and down in unison for Pitch, or opposing to give Roll.

BUT if you select this mode of having Dual Ailerons AND Dual Elevators you have to lose either the GAIN input function, or the FLIGHT MODE input function. This is because the device does not have enough input ports to have all of its functions useable at once. This occurred because some functionality was not thought of originally and was added in the V2.0 Firmware. This input shortage is annoying, but it is still workable - with its slight impedance to being to set up full controls. (ie control of Gain, of Flight Mode missing)

The unit also has no Output Invert options (eg ability to program/select that an output to a servo operates in the reverse direction). Which can be an issue in some installation/setup cases. For eg in the Elevon, or Taileron, configuration mentioned above, if one elevator/elevon's servo is moving in the wrong direction as to required, then it will need 'reversing'. So you will need to use a Servo Reverser, or Reversed Servo. Many Flight Control units have the ability to Reverse the Servo Output drive themselves - seeing they are creating the Servo Drive internally anyway, it is easy to Invert that signal (with a User option to select that per Output).

An issue I found is that the nice 'cheap' HobbyKing Servo Reverser unit ($1-50) does not work with the A3 Super output signal for some reason. Which highlighted the lack of Output Invert ability in the A3 super - which would save spending money on a Reverser, and the space it needs to fit it in a plane.
Hopefully a future Firmware update will include the addition of that feature.
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 04:53 AM
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starting with the A3 super i noticed there is no AUX mode menu item on the controller display , as mentioned in the manual page 11, is this normal?

what is the best to start with for flight mode switch?
should Gyro on/off , Normal (=RateMode?) and 3D(AVCS) flightmodes be the best to start with like i used on A3 Pro?

not clear yet to me what the self-balance mode means

should the plane be leveled every time at power on?

please advice
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaccies View Post
starting with the A3 super i noticed there is no AUX mode menu item on the controller display , as mentioned in the manual page 11, is this normal?

what is the best to start with for flight mode switch?
should Gyro on/off , Normal (=RateMode?) and 3D(AVCS) flightmodes be the best to start with like i used on A3 Pro?

not clear yet to me what the self-balance mode means

should the plane be leveled every time at power on?

please advice
I would try all the flight Modes so you can see how they feel
Self-Balance - This is where the plane automatic rights itself when switched to this mode.Kind of like a automatic pilot mode. Mainly a good mode for beginners learning to fly. But I used this mode the other day when I was blinded by the sun.Some guys really like this mode landing Warplanes. It keeps everything level and just becomes more of throttle management reducing the work load for the pilot when landing. .
Yes, the plane should be leveled at power up . This allows the gyros to have a reference point .
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go4it View Post
I would try all the flight Modes so you can see how they feel
Self-Balance - This is where the plane automatic rights itself when switched to this mode.Kind of like a automatic pilot mode. Mainly a good mode for beginners learning to fly. But I used this mode the other day when I was blinded by the sun.Some guys really like this mode landing Warplanes. It keeps everything level and just becomes more of throttle management reducing the work load for the pilot when landing. .
Yes, the plane should be leveled at power up . This allows the gyros to have a reference point .
thanks
but the menu item AUX mode is not available in the controller is this true?
while the document page 11 tells something else?

so self balance is like the Guardian has
leveling the plane was not neccessary in A3 Pro
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaccies View Post
thanks
but the menu item AUX mode is not available in the controller is this true?
while the document page 11 tells something else? Before I try to answer the question. You have to have Version 2 installed in the A3super controller and the black programmer box. Then the AUX is possible to use. The AUX by Eaglehobby for the A3Super is called FMOD which is used to switch a 3 postion switch between modes and the GAIN wire is mapped to a channel on the TX, usually a knob to adjust the gain -called MASTER GAIN -while flying. Look at page 5 in the new manual that covers version 2. I just set up a plane using AUX MODE 4. The reason I used setup was do to the plane I was setting up did not require a second channel for the elevator2.The plane only had one servo driving the elevator. So the BROWN wire was not used. RED-MASTER GAIN= wire mapped to a channel on the Rx that the TX knob controlled from 0-100% . Next the YELLOW wire was mapped to a channel to the RX and controlled by a 3 position switch on the TX to switch between modes-like Self level , Stable mode,OFF, or 3D HH Heading Hold mode

so self balance is like the Guardian has
leveling the plane was not necessary in A3 Pro
This is true about the A3 PRO do to, it does not have 3 accelerometers build into the board. . The A3 Pro is a 3axis Heading Hold and Rate gain gyro system.

When you have accelerometers you have to have the gyro's initialize to give them a reference point to work from. That's why it is very important not to move the plane while the white light is blinking.

I being flying the setup that I described above in a plane today for 6 hours so I know it works. The one thing I did notice. One of the factory defaults has self level set to STANDARD, to self right the plane. This setting is for how fast the accelerometers make the gyro's respond to a on-board control signal input. In standard setting it upright's very fast. I reset it to slow setting, which was better next I will try VERY SLOW setting. I don't want a warplane looking like a 3D . I tested this by flying upside down in level flight then switched to Self Level mode. I want the maneuver to be more natural and not like a 3D move when it uprights itself.
Hope the above helps
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 07:51 PM
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There are a lot of settings and sub-values, so a lot of testing to do to go over them all!!
Make sure you do 'slower' setting tests nice and high, hehe.

The "Self balance" actual programming/process is unknown.... whilst the Guardian changes the INPUT control methods to be "Angular". Planes with no Flight Control System work via natural surface responses being a RATE mode of control. I don't think a "Self Levelling" method can be done without at least using an Angular mode to some degree at least (very long winded to outline and explain how it all works!), but this weekend I will be testing the A3super through a lot of its functions and settings. Becase I want to KNOW how it all works, and what it actually does, because to make proper use of such a device you need to understand that - even so you CONTROL your plane the correct way, because Angular input and Rate input are very different systems.
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
There are a lot of settings and sub-values, so a lot of testing to do to go over them all!!
Make sure you do 'slower' setting tests nice and high, hehe.

The "Self balance" actual programming/process is unknown.... whilst the Guardian changes the INPUT control methods to be "Angular". Planes with no Flight Control System work via natural surface responses being a RATE mode of control. I don't think a "Self Levelling" method can be done without at least using an Angular mode to some degree at least (very long winded to outline and explain how it all works!), but this weekend I will be testing the A3super through a lot of its functions and settings. Becase I want to KNOW how it all works, and what it actually does, because to make proper use of such a device you need to understand that - even so you CONTROL your plane the correct way, because Angular input and Rate input are very different systems.

Yes, your correct. I used a cheap bubble level that had a center bubble to help it level the same each time. I also used the bubble level to set the A3Super dead lead on the center line of the plane. I wanted to make it a contrast reference each time..
You mention how it all works. That's why I am testing each item with the same plane to see the response. I did notice today I had the MAster Gain turn to 100% on the Tx but the Black programmer box when hooked up only showed 92% so I had to enter 100% to make it match.

Yes, AVCS mode is very different in any gyro system. And with this mode you can not have any mix or sub trims in the radio are it will and can create problems. And that's why it has to memorize neutral setting's at initialization.

For the guys that may not have heard of AVCS-Angular Velocity Command Signal
For the term AVCS some call this Heading Hold or 3D mode. When I flew helicopters we always called it HH Mode.
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 09:20 PM
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Here is a item of interest or one point to remember
Gyro sensitivity also changes with the length of the servo horn. So when the sensitivity is too low, lengthen the servo horn, Conversely, when hunting does not stop , shorten the servo horn. With this said, over the years 13mm on the horn was always a good starting point. This was good for torque and speed.
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 09:45 PM
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For info:
I wouldn't alter any servo or surface control horns to make it suit some device.
Doing this is a 'base level' adjustment that then affects ALL aspects of control. eg even no A3 plain flying. Or A3super De-Activated.
Also messing up your optimal servo ranges - if you had even taken the time to make sure they are all using the optimal drive angles and their full resolution etc.

So you really want to leave servo / pushrod / horn things alone. Only use an item of adjustment in the CONTROLLING DEVICE to alter ranges or sensitivities. eg TX for Expo... in A3 for gyro gains/sensitivity etc.

ie
1) The base mechanics/geometries remain optimised as per accurate control (radius and leverage affected etc) require. And to utilise full servo resolution. (all at least to the best you can set that all up). Nothing to do with any 'special' control requests, from any source.
2) Use TX controls - rate limits, expos etc - for control variations... BUT, if using some Gyro you also need to understand how THEY each work, and require certain TX control operations to suit what they need (even can be different per device mod. eg 2D, 3D etc)
3) Use device controls - like A3super servo limits etc - to make sure that device does not over-drive things, and works optimally. And gains etc.

-----
You can get away with a fair amount of 'Not done truly correct' and not even know it.... but it is better to do all the steps the right way, for the grand total to operate the best it can and as intended.
I would say that doing a 'half right job' (no specific on what a half is, lol) would still give useful results overall anyway. eg quite possibly a lot of people throw them in and the servo can reach control surface end stops when controlled by the A3, say in 3D mode, so the servo is under duress but no one ever notices any problem from it anyway. (one day the servo might smoke, lol)
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Old Oct 10, 2013, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
For info:
I wouldn't alter any servo or surface control horns to make it suit some device.
Doing this is a 'base level' adjustment that then affects ALL aspects of control. eg even no A3 plain flying. Or A3super De-Activated.
Also messing up your optimal servo ranges - if you had even taken the time to make sure they are all using the optimal drive angles and their full resolution etc.

So you really want to leave servo / pushrod / horn things alone. Only use an item of adjustment in the CONTROLLING DEVICE to alter ranges or sensitivities. eg TX for Expo... in A3 for gyro gains/sensitivity etc.

ie
1) The base mechanics/geometries remain optimised as per accurate control (radius and leverage affected etc) require. And to utilise full servo resolution. (all at least to the best you can set that all up). Nothing to do with any 'special' control requests, from any source.
2) Use TX controls - rate limits, expos etc - for control variations... BUT, if using some Gyro you also need to understand how THEY each work, and require certain TX control operations to suit what they need (even can be different per device mod. eg 2D, 3D etc)
3) Use device controls - like A3super servo limits etc - to make sure that device does not over-drive things, and works optimally. And gains etc.

-----
You can get away with a fair amount of 'Not done truly correct' and not even know it.... but it is better to do all the steps the right way, for the grand total to operate the best it can and as intended.
I would say that doing a 'half right job' (no specific on what a half is, lol) would still give useful results overall anyway. eg quite possibly a lot of people throw them in and the servo can reach control surface end stops when controlled by the A3, say in 3D mode, so the servo is under duress but no one ever notices any problem from it anyway. (one day the servo might smoke, lol)
What your saying is correct. What I was saying I start at a point on the servo horn like 13mm and set everything for 100% throw. I try never to go out to far on the servo horn do the unwanted stress it adds. Like you said--it might smoke one day. If in dough you can always measure the amp draw. I always setup a flyable plane before adding a gyro system. Then yes, I use the A3super setting to set or change the throws as required.

Tomorrow if I have time I am going to check one item. The area that you can set the gain for each servo-factory set point is 50% for each. So If I turn down the Master gain to 0% is the gain setting still the preset of 50%. I am going to set the gain setting to 0% and use the Master gain to adjust to 0% with the gyro's gain set at 0% and then go back to the factory setting of 50% and 0% on the Master gain and record the difference.It will be interesting if the factory gain setting at 50% overrides the 0% master gain setting. I know the master gain setting overrides the 50% gain setting when you take the Master gain up to 75% or 100%. It was difficult today to make for good testing do to the wind was Zero all day. That's why I was testing the self level mode. I was doing all my testing in a 80in electric T28 ESM Model warbird. One thing I can say that I wound never do with a Guardian was land in their 2D self level mode, it was an accident waiting to happen. With the A3super it made it a cake walk. Why,I don'really know. But I do know, I almost crash the few times that I would try it with the G and always had to turn it to OFF to regain control of the plane.
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Old Oct 11, 2013, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go4it View Post
This is true about the A3 PRO do to, it does not have 3 accelerometers build into the board. . The A3 Pro is a 3axis Heading Hold and Rate gain gyro system.

When you have accelerometers you have to have the gyro's initialize to give them a reference point to work from. That's why it is very important not to move the plane while the white light is blinking.

I being flying the setup that I described above in a plane today for 6 hours so I know it works. The one thing I did notice. One of the factory defaults has self level set to STANDARD, to self right the plane. This setting is for how fast the accelerometers make the gyro's respond to a on-board control signal input. In standard setting it upright's very fast. I reset it to slow setting, which was better next I will try VERY SLOW setting. I don't want a warplane looking like a 3D . I tested this by flying upside down in level flight then switched to Self Level mode. I want the maneuver to be more natural and not like a 3D move when it uprights itself.
Hope the above helps
thanks for info very helpfull,
and oops my fault i forgot to upgrade the controller to version 2 , now i see AUX mode menu item

ok i will start with Aux mode=3 and Flight mode = Normal, AVCS, Self balancing Wingtype =normal
if i leave the rest as default is this a good start?
i have a 3D plane 50inch
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 07:58 PM
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I had someone PM a question on how to download the new release Ver2.0 firmware upgrade Ver2.0

Go to Hobbyeagle download web page

http://www.hobbyeagle.com/download/

Go to site to download the new Firmware upgrade Ver2.0 32.4mb
new config tool upgrade Ver2.0 32.0mb

microsoft.net Compact Framework2.0 25.5mb Do this second
USBKey Driver Installer 6.78mb Do this first

The PDF file for instructions see attached file---read before staring

What I did was right click on the firmware upgrade and save to desktop. That way it places a ICON on your desktop to get to quickly.
The other files I jut sent to a download file

Hope this helps
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 08:10 PM
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When it tells you at the bottom to connect device. Connect and it will download new firmware. You have to do this to the Black program box and download update to A3Super unit . You have to make sure both devices have the new upgrade Ver2.0
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