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Old Jan 22, 2013, 11:19 AM
Eggcellent...
tewatson's Avatar
United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
2,449 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by psoff3x View Post
I made the mistake of referring to the extreme as having turned up tips. It had both. The Xtreme was a manufacturing layup technology used by Lubos and both the Eraser 2000 and Eraser were available in a variety of layups, including Xtreme.

What was available in different parts of the world was simply a marketing decision. Here in the UK the Xtreme and XTreme D-Box layups were available in both variants of the Eraser.
That makes sense. Back in the day a club-mate had an original Eraser with the curled tips. What a PITA those must have been to store and transport!

Tom
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 11:13 PM
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vinster100's Avatar
Dallas, Texas
Joined Feb 2005
148 Posts
Thanks for all the help guys. I ended up going with the following settings...

CG: 103mm - 105mm from L/E
Hook: 102mm from L/E

Ailerons: +20mm/+20mm (differential +20mm/-8mm)
Elevator: +10mm/-10mm
Rudder: +10mm/-10mm

Launch: Flaps 11mm/Ailerons 6mm
Cruise: Flaps 0mm/Ailerons 0mm
Thermal: Flaps 2mm/Ailerons 1mm
Speed: Flaps -2mm/ Ailerons -1mm

Should be a good place to start.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 03:08 AM
F3B
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Warwickshire, England
Joined Sep 2006
5,520 Posts
is the version with flat tips faster and more nimble than the curly tipped orginal?

I had the curly and it was lightning slow and had a very poor roll rate. I only used it as a slope model though.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:15 PM
Skye Malcolm
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Upper Arlington, OH
Joined Mar 2009
645 Posts
curly tip vs flap tip

I had a D box curly tip V tail eraser and a D Box flat tip Extreme "cross" tail Eraser. I sold the V tail and mid-aired the cross tail (twice) so I fly neither one now. My memories of flying both (only a couple years ago) were fonder with the flat tip cross tail compared to the curly tipped V tail and I have to say part of the unhappiness with the curly tip version the strangely slow roll rate. Still, both are relatively awesome planes compared to the old-fashioned stuff I had before that with the 7037 airfoil. You've got to love the great speed range of the MH32 airfoil. I did both my 1 km and 2 km cross country flights with that curly tip V tail Eraser. That plane at about 78 oz just flat out hauls the mail with an almost 30 mph cruising speed. We had a 15 mph wind on the 1 km day and our little pickup truck was struggling to keep up with the plane on the down wind leg back to the field. In the case of the 2 km goal and return, there was some miscommunication with myself and the driver and I thought someone was telling me to fly faster (actually they were talking to the driver of the truck) and so I put the nose down just a bit and boy I covered that 2 km in about 1 minute!

Skye
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:17 PM
Will fly for food
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Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
6,978 Posts
Very same experience with a friends flat tip model. Nice and predictable but slow in all aspects
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 02:56 AM
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Dallas, Texas
Joined Feb 2005
148 Posts
Skye8070, thanks for the post. It's nice to hear from those that have flown the Eraser. I have the flat tip version. With help from those in this post and some of the very little I found on the setup details so far, I was able to figure out the CG, tow hook, surface throws and differential settings.

However I'm still a bit confused on setting up the flaps and have a few questions. Maybe you or others that had or have the Eraser could help with them.

Question 1: Are the flaps supposed be setupt as flaperons and work with the ailerons or just as flaps only?

Question 2: If they are to act as flaperons, is it a one to one mix or different than the aileron throws?

Question 3: If Q2 is yes, what are the throw settings for the flaps? Do I match the same throws and differential setting as my ailerons?

Once again, this is my first full house plane to setup and since I bought it second hand, I don't have any of the instructions that came with it....assuming any did.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:46 AM
F3B
satinet's Avatar
Warwickshire, England
Joined Sep 2006
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It's interesting to hear other people's thoughts about the model.

Maybe the curly tips gave it too much dihedral angle for a decent roll rate.
The model was flat out slow in a straight line though. Maybe I am just used to flying f3b/f models, but it was amazingly slow. It kind of sucked as a slope model as the minimum sink wasn't very good either!

A lot of people seem to like them so maybe there is more to the model than I thought.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:49 AM
F3B
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Warwickshire, England
Joined Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinster100 View Post
Skye8070, thanks for the post. It's nice to hear from those that have flown the Eraser. I have the flat tip version. With help from those in this post and some of the very little I found on the setup details so far, I was able to figure out the CG, tow hook, surface throws and differential settings.

However I'm still a bit confused on setting up the flaps and have a few questions. Maybe you or others that had or have the Eraser could help with them.

Question 1: Are the flaps supposed be setupt as flaperons and work with the ailerons or just as flaps only?

Question 2: If they are to act as flaperons, is it a one to one mix or different than the aileron throws?

Question 3: If Q2 is yes, what are the throw settings for the flaps? Do I match the same throws and differential setting as my ailerons?

Once again, this is my first full house plane to setup and since I bought it second hand, I don't have any of the instructions that came with it....assuming any did.
It's more a general question than an answer specific to the eraser.

Yes you sould move the flaps as ailerons. Not the same throw though. Try 1/3 as much travel as the ailerons. This is the Dr Drela wisdom on the subject.

in terms of the differential the flaps have you have to experiement with it really. Some people say the closer in board the less differential you need. I think the think to do is to get it rolling fairly well on the aileron, then add in the flaps (i.e put the function on a switch) and tune from there.

Generally speaking on launch, camber and reflex settings I virtually always match the ailerons and flaps flush, and so do almost everyone else I see flying.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:42 PM
Will fly for food
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Bellevue WA,
Joined Dec 2003
6,978 Posts
Trying to roll an Erasure takes time even with the flaps acting as additional ailerons. With the slow flight characteristic's rolling is not what the plane was designed for. Trailing edge camber and reflex will help but don't get your hopes up for an aerobatic flight envelope.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:09 PM
Skye Malcolm
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Upper Arlington, OH
Joined Mar 2009
645 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinster100 View Post
Skye8070, thanks for the post. It's nice to hear from those that have flown the Eraser. I have the flat tip version. With help from those in this post and some of the very little I found on the setup details so far, I was able to figure out the CG, tow hook, surface throws and differential settings.

However I'm still a bit confused on setting up the flaps and have a few questions. Maybe you or others that had or have the Eraser could help with them.

Question 1: Are the flaps supposed be setupt as flaperons and work with the ailerons or just as flaps only?

Question 2: If they are to act as flaperons, is it a one to one mix or different than the aileron throws?

Question 3: If Q2 is yes, what are the throw settings for the flaps? Do I match the same throws and differential setting as my ailerons?

Once again, this is my first full house plane to setup and since I bought it second hand, I don't have any of the instructions that came with it....assuming any did.
In the end I set mine up to match the Samba website settings for the Pike Perfect including all the flight modes. Again, just more fuel for your fire. http://www.f3j.com/perfect/settings_060306.pdf The great thing about this reference is that has pictures of the surfaces deflecting and show the different flight modes. I know other friends flying newer machines than the Pike Perfect such as the Aspire and they also start with these settings as good starting point.

But in regards to flaps in particular I mixed them with ailerons at 30% of what the ailerons deflect including the differential. That's how it's setup on the Airtronics SD-10G. Maybe other radios you set the absolute throw and not as a percentage of the ailerons, I'm not a radio authority.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:28 PM
Skye Malcolm
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Upper Arlington, OH
Joined Mar 2009
645 Posts
http://www.f3j.com/setup.htm

It's titled "setting up a full house sailplane" so it's another good read for you. Again focused on the Perfect but not reason not to read it. Also I forgot to mention on the pdf file with the visual throws that I don't do 2 things in there because most of the people that fly better than me at contests also don't do those two things. Those two things are:

1. Use crow ailerons in landing mode. (don't do it - just keep the ailerons as ailerons without differential because if you need to level the wings you are going slow and you need all the throw you can muster and you really don't give a hoot about efficiency 5 feet off the ground. You care about saving a wing tip)
2. In launch mode deflect the flaps more than the ailerons. Instead it's an evenly deflected wing camber that's most frequently used.

Another thing which literally took me years to learn is flying with the left stick...ie using the rudder. There are lots of flight regimes to use the rudder and only the rudder. Weak lift just trying to keep the plane in minimum sink, in launch when you throw it crooked and need to straighten it out, in tight turns working low level lift keeping the fuse level when the thermal feeder is only 10 or 20 feet wide...these are the most important that come to mind. If I'm "skied out" 1000 feet up in a big thermal I just go to sleep and use the right stick ailerons and have a bit of rudder mixed in. But in all those other cases when I get on the rudder and work it as necessary. It was a very hard lesson to learn because I flew rudder/elevator bent wing sailplanes for many years with no other R/C experience and getting the Eraser meant I had those bad habits ingrained. But I'm better now.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:17 PM
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Dallas, Texas
Joined Feb 2005
148 Posts
Thanks Skye, that is some great information and I have saved it for future reference. I decided to change my initial setup (which is only on paper at this point) again to use these settings as a starting point.

Actually I'm editing the document you referenced to make it easier to read, at least for me. I may re-post it here for others also. I personally think it is the sort of thing that should be a forum sticky. I think that many, like myself, who are new to full house plane setups would find it extremely helpful.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:33 PM
Skye Malcolm
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Upper Arlington, OH
Joined Mar 2009
645 Posts
Since a lot of glider pilots have cycled through the Perfect they are at least familiar with them. Each airfoil is different so neutral in the mold might mean cruise for one and thermal for another. You might be surprised to hear some hardly play with camber during their flights and certainly I'd council you that less is more. My thoughts as a beginning full house glider guider were to spool up a lot of camber or reflex to go slow and fast and to come down from big lift pulling full flaps. Now I often touch it as little as necessary, fly smooth, and use speed mode to burn up energy to come down from big lift. Easier on the servos and more efficient to lose height. Plus its kind of fun burning holes in the sky.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:47 PM
Father of Fr3aK, DLG Pilot
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USA, OH, Worthington
Joined May 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by satinet View Post
It's interesting to hear other people's thoughts about the model.

Maybe the curly tips gave it too much dihedral angle for a decent roll rate.
The model was flat out slow in a straight line though. Maybe I am just used to flying f3b/f models, but it was amazingly slow. It kind of sucked as a slope model as the minimum sink wasn't very good either!

A lot of people seem to like them so maybe there is more to the model than I thought.

I had several of the Erasers in various forms. I think I sold Skye the one with the curved tips... and my understanding was that it was a 2000 or "El Camino." The Extreme was lighter construction, flat tips, and sold as X or V tails in several variants. The first I had was a very light V tail (around 65oz) that was not a D-box construction but all glass. It was using light glass over rohacell or similar sandwich and if you even looked at it crosseyed it would leave a ding. Later I picked up a couple cross tail D-box layups (around 70 ounces) and they were I believe built with a heavier rohacell and perhaps slightly heavier outer glass skin... much less fragile. Those were great airplanes IMHO. The curved up tips weren't as much of a disadvantage aerodynamically as they were just plain heavy, ugly, fragile, and hard to transport. I think the weight at the tips wrecked the roll rate. I always felt like I was flying a poly XC ship when flying the curly tip Erasers... input controls... count to ten... airframe starts to respond etc.

I believe the Eraser "DP" was just an extreme D-box sold by NSP and marketed / flown by Daryl Perkins.

There was an F3B version that I always thought came from the same molds but used a heavier layup. I think it also had "shotgun shell" ballast under the slipnose but I only ever saw one that was built that way. Other "F3B" versions I saw had the more normal fuse with the glass ballast tube centered / tilted in the fuse behind the servo.

I always flew the CG about 2-4mm aft of the middle bolt and ballasted just about never. In fact, I'm not sure I even had a ballast set for one of them.

As for speed... they weren't really built for that. The Fazer later was a much better ship in wind but wasn't as popular in TD because it tended to not be as floaty with the airfoil changes. I still have a flyable Fazer.

All of the above is from my brain and may or may not be fully correct... but was my recollection from owning a BUNCH of these airplanes over the years.
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