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Old Jan 01, 2012, 09:36 PM
Dave North
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USA, CA, San Jose
Joined Apr 2004
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24awg will be great if you can get it on there. I've done as many as 14 turns with 24-gauge, but it starts getting fairly hard at 12. At 11 turns it will be a difficult first wind but if you are patient and very careful you can do it. Might have to try twice or three times, but it ain't rocket science.

Dave
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by timocharis View Post
Manuel, no. They're just like the old Hex 2730 stators except:
1. Thinner laminations (0.2mm)
2. Slightly thicker stator stack
3. Bigger registration bumps

Otherwise, you might just figure them to be old Blue Wonders. The AX221* stators have thicker lams and a slightly larger center hole (I think) for the larger bearing tube. But they wind in a very similar fashion. Since I'm not sure about the center hole, it's certainly possible that the AX motors use the same stator plates as the old Blue Wonder 2730.


Dave
I wound a couple of Red and Blue motors. First was 8t, 23 ga and wasn't too hard, second was 9t, 23 ga; trickier for me but I got it done. I did a little testing on both motors at various loads for a VTOL project. Results below; 16 magnet motors. I was looking for a good combination of efficiency at about 300 grams of thrust and for speed for forward flight.

Then I tried to wind some old Silver colored motors. I'm having great trouble getting 8t of 23 ga on these. The space for winding must be slightly smaller.

Are the Black and Red motor stators the same as the Blue and Red?

ps Just wound some of the "original" Blue Wonder stators with 9t, 24 ga. Equal difficulty to the 9t, 23ga on the Red and Blue
Wonder stator.
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Old Feb 08, 2012, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Truglodite View Post
Quick correction, that wind was indeed 24awg. W5BSA, usually when you don't hear back it means things went good... how did it run?

Speaking of 12turn motors, my T2730-14p-6x2t-24awg-Y gem is back in action again. Here's the motor powering my own pylon 300 design during maiden:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ry7MmbAvCU

111mph?! The maiden video contained several upwind passes that doppler between 109-111mph; factor in wind that day and it travels 120mph. This should make it clear that pitch speed on the bench is not a speed limit. Based on a hunch that this thing is slippery enough, I chopped down few 6x5.5e props to around 4". FYI, a 6x5.5 cut to 4.0" EXACTLY matches the 4.75e in both static amps and thrust (verified by my thrust stand). I'm hoping the extra 15mph pitch speed with the 4x5.5 equates to roughly that much more airspeed this Sunday. If not, there's always a 10T-23awg-D.

Cheers,
Kev
That's really fast!

I'm looking at doing some speed winds for this spring. What is the current best recommendation that isn't too difficult to wind. Also how many amp esc, what battery and prop?
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 12:25 AM
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This one goes over 130mph:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=569B5h1fcpU

It's a 10P-6x2T-24awg-Y, which pulls 29A/11.26V with Nanotech 3s1000 45C packs, and lands barely warm.

The stator is basically 12 turns of 24awg, which isn't "very hard". Just keep things clean and tight as you go. A carefully polished T-pin held in a pin vise also really helps to make room for those last 1 or 2 turns. Dave's tut also has great advice about 'leaving slack near the transition turn'. Using this bit of advise is absolutely essential to pulling off a 12T-24awg dlrk.

Hacking 10p rotors is something a speed-RBW-rewinder should know. You're pretty much stuck below 120mph with 14p rotors. As RPM's climb up there, 10p becomes way more efficient and easier on the esc.

Kev
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Truglodite View Post
This one goes over 130mph:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=569B5h1fcpU

It's a 10P-6x2T-24awg-Y, which pulls 29A/11.26V with Nanotech 3s1000 45C packs, and lands barely warm.

The stator is basically 12 turns of 24awg, which isn't "very hard". Just keep things clean and tight as you go. A carefully polished T-pin held in a pin vise also really helps to make room for those last 1 or 2 turns. Dave's tut also has great advice about 'leaving slack near the transition turn'. Using this bit of advise is absolutely essential to pulling off a 12T-24awg dlrk.

Hacking 10p rotors is something a speed-RBW-rewinder should know. You're pretty much stuck below 120mph with 14p rotors. As RPM's climb up there, 10p becomes way more efficient and easier on the esc.

Kev
That's really impressive! When I was watching the video, my first thought was that is was playing in fast motion; that is until I noticed the clock/counter in the lower part of the frame. What I admire most about your accomplishment is not just the speed, but doing it with such a small power package...doing more with less, the elegant solution; very, very nice.

What is the kV of that motor?

When winding 6x2t do you do the first set of 3 wires and then the second set of 3 wires over top?

Thanks for your feedback!
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 01:56 PM
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Thanks lf, it's nice to see others appreciate the direction I was going with those experiments. It's not about breaking some XXXmph record, it's about squeezing more potential out of existing equipment. Every day some plane out there is moving faster thanks to bigger/heavier equipment and a larger wingloading. However once in a while we find more speed without any negative side effects... like having cake and eating it too. Good stuff indeed!

The calculated Kv is around 3680 RPM/V. At these Kv's doing a no-load test is not wise; the super high rpm's can throw a magnet and destroy a motor before you even get a chance to put a prop on. The actual Kv isn't important anyways, so much as the relative difference in Kv between different winds.

The 6x2T uses what we have been calling a 'half parallel' wind (versus the 'standard wind' you're used to seeing). It actually has 12 continuous turns on each pole, similar to a standard 12T delta. The difference is in the termination... in essence you're taking a standard wind, cutting each phase in half, and soldering them back together in parallel. We don't literally cut the phases in half as the resulting short leads would make scraping/soldering difficult, but we do wind them so we end up with 6 half phases (and we get 12 wires to deal with instead of 6). A picture is worth 1000 words:



That diagram shows what would be a 1.5x2T motor, but I accidentally added one extra turn on the 'E' hammers. Imagine there are 3 physical turns per hammer. When terminated per the legend (Y or D), those 3 turns per hammer become electrically equivalent to 1.5 turns, and the Kv would be the same as a 1.5T standard wind.

Hope this helps,
Kev
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 03:48 PM
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Does this make it a 6pole motor, as far as the ESC is concerned?
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Old Feb 09, 2012, 09:13 PM
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To measure kV, I use a drill press, a tachometer and a voltmeter. I put the drill press at it's highest speed, measure the rpm's, chuck the motor shaft in the drill press, spin and measure the voltage between the leads. Usually each of the three measured voltages is exactly the same or very close, I average the three AC readings. Convert the averaged AC voltage to DC ( AC x .7071 = DC). Divide the RPM by DC and you get a pretty accurate kV. Simple to do if you have the right tools.
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Old Feb 10, 2012, 03:18 AM
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Vegas, it's a 10 pole motor.

LF, I could get Kv using my logger at lower voltage, but anymore testing Kv just serves as a verification of a good rewind, and there are simpler ways to do that. We already have dozens of Kv*T data points in just about every flavor 2730. This is good enough to easily predict the Kv with like 5% accuracy, even for configurations that haven't been tested. For example, to plan my first 10p rewind, I multiplied my 14pole Kv data by 1.4 to predict Kv's. It was very accurate as I expected.

When you think about it that way... Kv*T*p = very a telling number!

Kev
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 05:44 PM
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I crashed my Adrenaline Rush the other day and just found the motor (2730-3000) embedded about 4" in the ground today. It was all bent up so I removed the windings to count how many turns on the stock motor. Most of them were 10t, but a couple were 11t and one was 9t. HK quality at it's best!! I am assuming 10t is what they were all supposed to be. I've got another one I want to rewind and would love to try Trug's 10p screamer but I'm not so sure I want to mess with changing the mag configuration (never done it before). I may just leave it 14p and do 10t. What size wire should I use for 10t?
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 10:21 PM
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For 10T, 23awg will fit but it ain't easy. 24awg is very easy. I don't recall what the thickness or strand count of the stock wind, but I sorta remember the circular mils are close to 24awg.

Kev
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Old Feb 11, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truglodite View Post
For 10T, 23awg will fit but it ain't easy. 24awg is very easy. I don't recall what the thickness or strand count of the stock wind, but I sorta remember the circular mils are close to 24awg.

Kev
Thanks. Stock on mine was 4 strands of 34awg (.16mm). I'll do the first one with 24awg and see if I have any room left over for 23awg on the next one.
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Old Feb 12, 2012, 05:54 PM
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What could be the problem?

Ok, this is in no way my first rewind, I've got about 10 under my belt now. The 10t 24awg was a very easy wind, but when I tried powering it up, it stuttered a bit at first and then when running, became very hot, very fast while stuttering intermittently. I was thinking I had terminated it wrong, so I tried a couple of different combinations, all with the same results. I used my multimeter to check for shorts and found none. So, I stripped the stator and tried again. This time, I used the dlrk method that matches the correct delta terminations in pairs with the wires together. Once again, no shorts, but I get the same results.
I must add that this motor never worked right when it was new. I figured it was just a bad winding job. Could the mags be the problem? I guess it could be possible that they glued a magnet or two in backwards?
What else can I check?
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 07:35 AM
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my 1700kv blue wonder has packed up..i have some 26awg also some 30awg wire how many turns per tooth (12 teeth) will i need and which termination??
thanks daren
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Old Feb 13, 2012, 08:18 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
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If you want the same Kv wind the same number of turns that were there originally.

A good way to explore the options are to look at the spreadsheets on Truglodite's blog page that summarize the results of hundreds of rewinds on red and blue wonder motors:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=142090

You reall have to decide whether you have a 10 or 14 magnet motor too and for the best results for some Kv's you may have to consider changing the magnet count.

Jack
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