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Old Jul 09, 2013, 07:28 PM
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Anaheim, CA, USA
Joined Feb 2005
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Question
RPM for Break In Saito Gas Engine

Should I do the break in runs at a low single RPM or should I vary the RPM but keep it below the recommended maximum from the manual? I have looked in many different places but the only consistent thing I see are YouTube videos where the engine is idling for the entire run.

If it matters, this is for a Saito FG-14C and the max recommended RPM is 4000 for break in.

Thanks,
Mark
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Old Jul 09, 2013, 10:42 PM
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wfo
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Old Jul 09, 2013, 11:25 PM
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Do what the manual says, everyone has their own opinion but I always do what the manual says with great results.
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Old Jul 10, 2013, 01:44 AM
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Joined Aug 2004
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The worst thing for a ringed engine is to let it run in long idling.(Especially for break in).
Break in needs ring(s) to press on the cylinder wall by ignited gasses.So you need periodic short full throttles with cooling intervals(idling or low RPM s).
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 02:17 PM
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That "fast idle" initial run IS true for Saito GLOW mills, too...

Dear mhrussell:

The PIPE Here again - and as this small scan from one of the Saito four-stroke glow mills' user manuals has to say...



...that "fast idle" figure of 4,000 rpm "tops" for the first engine run IS a stated requirement for ALL Saito glow mills, and I've also seen it clearly stated in the PDF copies of the user manuals for the Saito FG-series gasser four-strokes, that are downloadable as Adobe Reader PDF files from Horizon Hobbies' website.

For the Saito glow mills I've broken-in, I've used a 3,600 rpm "top revs" figure for the first half-hour of operation instead on my test stand, and "spiked" my usual lower-percentage FHS Red Max 17% oiled, 10% nitro four-stroke glow fuel up to a 19% oil percentage, with about 6 cm3 of extra oil, in the usual 10-ounce fuel tank on my test stand for such an initial run.

So, the glow AND gasser Saito four-stroke mills have the same exact advisory on sticking to that "fast-idle" initial run for everything to "fit themselves together"...I'm used to it, and it doesn't take long to get through at all.

Hope this helped...

Yours Sincerely,
The PIPE....!!
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Old Jul 12, 2013, 03:27 PM
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The link below is not a new technique. I was taught this WAY back in 1973 by my instructor when I attended a automotive tech school. I've used this technique with every new engine I've owned since and have not had any issues. With the model stuff I only run it long enough on the ground to obtain a reliable idle, usually not more than a tank or two, then fly the motor to complete the break in at a "little rich" setting.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Ken
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenh3497 View Post
The link below is not a new technique. I was taught this WAY back in 1973 by my instructor when I attended a automotive tech school. I've used this technique with every new engine I've owned since and have not had any issues. With the model stuff I only run it long enough on the ground to obtain a reliable idle, usually not more than a tank or two, then fly the motor to complete the break in at a "little rich" setting.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Ken
+1.Also I have same .(For the ringed engines)
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 07:48 AM
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Yes follow the Saito instructions. You want to run the engine extra rich at first like Saito states, in order to get oil into the cam area and the valve top end too. The engines tend to come with very little oil in them from the factory, almost dry in some cases.

After running it in for a while, do double check the valve gaps too, as they can sometimes change a lot during the engine's break in.

To use the hard break in method, right off the start, you need to oil the bottom end real good, oil the cam box and cams/gears good, and oil the top end real good too. Excess oil will get blown out of the breather so it is no problem to over do it. But to oil the bottom end good, you'll have to pull the carb and backplate off. You want to try to work some oil into the big end on the rod too. Getting oil into the cam box area is a problem as you have to figure out a way to get oil into it, usually you have to pull the head so you can lift the cam box up to squirt in a liberal amount of oil and then put it back together. If these areas are not oiled real good and are dry, you could damage the engine by running it hard. The problem is that most people do not like to take apart a brand new engine to oil it up good.

Now you could compromise, and run the engine extra rich at low RPMs at first for a while, and then switch to the hard break in method. That way you have a reasonable assurance that the engine is lubricated reasonably well before you do so.
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Last edited by earlwb; Jul 13, 2013 at 07:56 AM. Reason: typo correction
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 09:34 AM
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To lube the bottom end just stick a hose off the vent port into a container of oil. shorter is better on the hose. Now just turn the engine over and it will draw the oil through the hose into the engine. Make sure the vent is "up" so the oil runs away from the vent inside the motor. Otherwise you just wind up flushing the oil back and forth through the hose. You can fill the crankcase pretty full using this method.

Ken
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 05:27 PM
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I would think that the manufacturer knows more about his engines than all the experts here. I would follow the instructions that came with the engine.
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 08:45 PM
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You COULD do that to a pre-1985 Saito mill...but NOT nowadays!

Quote:
Originally Posted by earlwb View Post
..."Getting oil into the cam box area is a problem as you have to figure out a way to get oil into it, usually you have to pull the head ( -WHOOPS!) so you can lift the cam box up to squirt in a liberal amount of oil and then put it back together.....
Dear EarlWB:

The PIPE Here again - my Saito FA-45 Mk.I from about 1983 is DEFINITELY old enough to "get its cylinder head pulled", as it WAS a model of very early Saito four-stroke mill that actually HAD a bolted-on cylinder head, and a two piece cylinder head at that !

Nowadays, though, and since 1985's rollout of what I THINK was called the FA-45 Mk.II, the cylinder head of ALL Saitos since then is COMPLETELY INTEGRAL with the cylinder "wall"!

When my Saito FA-56 was being broken in about a decade ago, and the bearings started to inexplicably "scream" intermittently during the second half of the break-in runs, I promptly shut down the engine, let it cool for about 15 minutes, and got a good healthy SLUG of Marvel Air Tool Oil down through the pushrod tubes — by removing each rocker cover, one at a time, and letting that slug of oil flood down the pushrod tube into the camshaft compartment just ahead of the cylinder's base flange before replacing them.

Following that "super-oiling" of the camshaft, the FA-56 didn't have a "case of screaming bearings" ever again, and when I can get back to flying once again (once I'm back at WORK, of course!) I might just repeat that exercise, as my FA-56 mill hasn't been run in about a decade, but HAS been kept well-oiled with the same Marvel Air Tool Oil to "pickle" it for for a return to the hobby someday.

Just spotted that "whoops" in your text, where some of us in the hobby who might not have been around Saitos all that much previously, could forget that the Saito four-stroke mills don't have a separate cylinder head any longer, and haven't had that as a feature of their design for nearly 30 years!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE......!
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Old Jul 13, 2013, 10:12 PM
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My apologies I was really thinking of the cylinder/head unit in order to get the cambox opened to oil it up good. Yeah sometimes one can get oil down the pushrod tubes but the oil may not get past the lifers though. One can loosen the screws and lift up the cylinder/head unit to get the pushrod tubes loose enough to lift the cambox a little bit so they can squirt in a liberal dose of oil and then put it back on. If you care careful and don't turn the crankshaft you won't have to worry about timing. But doing it at with the engine at TDC is not a bad way either.
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Old Jul 14, 2013, 12:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The PIPE View Post
Dear EarlWB:

The PIPE Here again - my Saito FA-45 Mk.I from about 1983 is DEFINITELY old enough to "get its cylinder head pulled", as it WAS a model of very early Saito four-stroke mill that actually HAD a bolted-on cylinder head, and a two piece cylinder head at that !
me Marvel Air Tool Oil to "pickle" it for for a return to the hobby someday.


Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE......!
I have two Saito 45's with the bolt on head as well as 3 Saito 30's with a bolt on head. What is the second part of the head?? Mine only have a one piece head. There is the head, rocker assembly and the valve covers. Nothing else. The 30's don't have valve covers. The original 40 had a bolt on head as well as the 80 twin. I own all of these as well as many more newer ones.
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Old Jul 15, 2013, 09:51 PM
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I've dropped a valve on a couple of satios. probally from over revs
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