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Old Feb 20, 2013, 02:25 PM
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United States, FL, Fort Walton Beach
Joined Jan 2013
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Build Log
Lindberg's North Sea Trawler

Hello
I am some what new to RC Groups, as I understand it I am a couple of inches over the line for mini-boats. But... I think you might have a more intimate knowledge of small stuff than Scale Boats. Here's what I need:
1) Thrust Washers 1/4x??. I'm not sure of the stuffing box length yet. Nor am I sure of th size of the drive shaft. I have 8 (ea.) factory plastic props.
2) A Robbe style Rudder kit. The operative word being "kit."
3) A Motor, with 3-350g Torque/Thrust. The engine can MUST be less than
1", perhaps 3/4ish.5-10v NiCad (AAs 1.25) An accompning motor mount would be nice.
4) ESC Ultra small and name brand. With power leads for Reciever. Futaba
friendly. If they make a very small programable ESC oh boy!
5) Sufficient advice per inline fuse. (old style glass tube)
6) A decent liquid mask, mine won't come back up worth a darn

I would prefer as few purchasing sources as possible to save $$ on shipping charges, etc.. It is very difficult have a hobby on SSD. The Agent Orange got me after all.

Because of the weight co-efficients or weight budget, there is the Eternal Quest (EQ) to lighten every thing. Per the deck; I took a steel brush and hi-speed drill and ground off a bit of the bottom deck thickness. I did tape off the outter edge, there's going to be enoungh grief shimming the deck into place as it is. I then sanded the bottom smooth again. Per the top deck; I have cut off the fore deck and bulkhead for assembly reasons. Using a backless saw I cut off all of the fish sorting bins, do mask all around the cutting areas, the blade does abraid the tape so you have to remask several times. The deck does not fit right, so before I glue the hull together, I have make full length pin rails (inclusive of triming all of the bulwark braces) and a dual shim for the deck. As well the deck drains don't line up regardless of shims. I am in the middle of those projects now. The Fore deck shims came out very well indeed, so I got the right idea. When I get around to painting (soon) I am going mask off a a 1/16 (ea.) of the hull and fore deck to have bare plastic to glue to for the Evergreen railing base w/ brass stanchions.
I really could use some help on the motor - some what between 5-10dcv and 3-350 torque/thrust and all the other stuff, mostly nominclature and purchasing sources. Pretty please and thank you.

Craig
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Old Feb 20, 2013, 11:46 PM
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Joined Dec 2002
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Here is an old build up of a North Sea Trawler...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173262

It doesn't specify many of the parts, but it might give you a good Idea of what
it will take to get your model assembled and running.




300 series motors might fit your specifications.
Mtroniks ESC are compact and water resistant. Harbor Models sells them online.
Mini blade fuses are easy to come by, and there are several holders availabe from auto stores.
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 01:46 AM
Sometimes I am the weapon
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South Korea, Gyeonggi-do, Ansan-si
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Oh no, another thread about the same boat.

This is potentially confusing. The Lindberg boat in question is the Lindberg "North Atlantic Fishing Trawler". The Revell kit is the "Northsea Fishing Trawler"; very similar names but different, and very different kits. You call it "North Sea" and Umi knows very much what you're talking about: the Revell trawler and shows you a build log on that particular kit. They can both be converted to RC quite easily but the Lindberg kit is ideal because it is larger (17") and has quite a bit more detail versus the Revell trawler. This is all very confusing I must say. Which kit do you have?
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Old Feb 23, 2013, 02:35 AM
Sometimes I am the weapon
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South Korea, Gyeonggi-do, Ansan-si
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If Pat Matthews can rummage through his collection of Scale Ship Modeler magazines, find the July 1992 issue (when there was a "short lived attempt to combine Race Boats and SSM"; the magazine's name changed), and scan a conversion article therein (Converting Scale Plastic Boat Models for R/C), it might serve you well. I followed the author's advice for the Lindberg Trawler conversion and it worked extremely well.

Some opinions:
1) Thrust washer: not crucial. This is not a high speed vessel so as long as you have a good shaft coupler it should be fine.

2) Earlier suggested you use 1/8 K&S brass rod for rudder shaft (or post), slotted for a rudder fabricated from K&S brass sheet. Think I used a 1 1/2" x 12" brass sheet (about the thickness of 2-3 playing cards) purchased from hobby shop. Solder or braze together. This allows you to completely customize the size for the application instead of relying on prefabricated commercial stuff. Repeat this method for other boat model conversions (can be addictive).

3) FA-130 to FK-180 size motor. Mabuchi type. Plentiful and cheap. Graupner Speed 250 perhaps?

4) Agree with Umi; Mtroniks Viper 10. Waterproof and darn near bulletproof too.
5) Agree with Umi; blade type would work, otherwise use automotive tube type.
6) I used plain old masking tape to tape off the waterline. Nothing fancy.

I built my trawler with the deck completely removable. I cut it into two sections however. The bow section and forward deck with the fish storage was one piece and the aft section with pilothouse was the other. I severed it right around where the trawl winch is located and where there is also a visible "step" on the main deck. The forward deck is usually kept in place while the rear deck/pilothouse was removed for battery charging. If I made another one I would cement the entire main deck in place and make it watertight (with functioning scuppers). I'd build a styrene coaming (approx 1/2" high) around the hole in the deck for the aft superstructure and have this in turn sit over the coaming as a friction fit. No water would get in and it would allow access to the innards (battery maintenance and charging, etc.).

If I was near my workshop, I'd fabricate you a complete rudder free of charge. I have the materials on hand.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 02:16 PM
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I've been working on this project for a while, but other things have gotten in the way. However, I have solved some of the issues you are referring to. Here are a few:

This is the ESC I'm going to use:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/180895241638...84.m1423.l2649

The ESC comes with BEC, so a set of four AA will take care of your RX power as well.

Here is how I did the rudder:

http://www.building-model-boats.com/...at-rudder.html

Prop & shaft:

http://www.building-model-boats.com/...ler-shaft.html

Please note, the shaft material 2mm stainless has been discontinued by Amazon. I have yet to find an alternate source. The nice thing is that the Tamiya prop (mentioned in the article) press-fits onto the 2mm shaft.

Rudder linkage (similar solution but in a different boat):

http://www.building-model-boats.com/rudder-linkage.html

I agree that the small flat-can Mabuchis would work well. The FA-130 technically is rated for 3V max and is a pretty crappy motor IMHO. If you can find a motor with the same form factor but rated for 4.8 or 6V you'd be in good shape. I've seen possible contenders at my local hobby shop for a few dollars.

This could work too for a motor:

http://www.surplus-electronics-sales...roducts_id=784

They have a few inline fuse holders - not sure if it is what you had in mind.

I've bought from this company before and they are very reasonable in terms of shipping cost.

I use some silicone fuel line (smallest ID I could find) as a coupling. Works like a champ.

I built a custom motor mount from styrene with a rubber band holding it down.

HTH

Petter
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 04:56 AM
Sometimes I am the weapon
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Great site you've put together and informative.

I should have just said 130 size motor and more specifically designated it as "FF-130SH" for instance, which could be a better match and depending on the variant (there's 3 listed), has an operating range of 2.5V - 10.0V or 3V - 12V. I like a long output shaft on the motor as it makes coupling easier.

Good technique on the rudder but I have even seen people use the stock rudder on model ship conversions drilled for a metal rudder shaft, 1/16 - 2mm is probably the size limit for the trawler, and epoxied in place. Lots of options especially for those not accustomed to soldering or who prefer easier methods.
Let me know how the 20A ESC works. I have recently purchased the 10A version of the same. Definitely a nice price point but sadly, nowhere near name brand... it's no name in this case.

sorcerercraig: Here's a wide range of wheel collars that can double as a thrust bearing/washer.

I think using the kit prop in this application is the way to go. It's tricky to drill it for the shaft, but if one goes slowly and checks to make sure it's true, the stock prop performs very well and pushes this boat with an authentic wave/wake pattern.
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Old Feb 25, 2013, 11:31 AM
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Thanks for the good words.

I agree the FF-130SH looks like a winner. I found jameco.com has a good selection of motors if the FF is hard to come by or out of budget.

As to ESC, I wouldn't trust it for the rated Amperage. I'd limit it at half or even 1/4 of rated. As you said, the price is right. For this model I'd be surprised if the current draw would go over 100mA.

An alternative for the prop shaft I used: 2mm bicycle spokes. Make sure you get the round and not the profiled spokes and make sure they're stainless. There are fancy alloy and carbon fiber spokes that you don't want. Could potentially be picked up for free at your local bike shop. Depending on your prop the thread may be useful, otherwise snip off the ends, deburr and you're good to go. I believe the thread is 56tpi or 0.45 mm/thread.

Good comments about rudder and prop too. I couldn't drill straight if my life depended on it, so stock prop is a no-go for me, but you may have a steadier hand than I do. I also have mixed feelings about the brittle nature of styrene for working parts, but that may just be an excuse.

Petter
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:58 AM
Sometimes I am the weapon
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The OP stated this was going to be a budget build or that he had limited funds for it (and these conversions should be cheap considering the price of the kits themselves). Otherwise I'd recommend any type of aftermarket prop and even a prefab rudder setup. Others have sworn by the "use the kit prop" philosophy so consider me a convert. I think it was Pat Tritle saying that more than anyone else.

Great idea for the alternative prop shaft... bicycle spokes!

Bump for the OP...
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 09:15 AM
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Removed post in it's entirety, as it was percieved as a hijack. Sorry.

Garboard
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 10:38 AM
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Hi Garboard,

very nice to look on !

Pekka
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Old Feb 26, 2013, 06:48 PM
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Removed by author.

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Old Feb 27, 2013, 11:42 PM
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Some very nice data. I want real thrust washers. I haven't got around to it yet, but I propose to drill the prop in 4 or 5 stages. A very small bit half way thru the hub, then the next larger bit from the other end of the hub. With a little luck the holes will nearly line up. Then its just a matter of increasing the bit sizes to force a straight hole up to the tap size. I plan to use a servo rod for the shaft. I will buy a half dozen nuts to fit the rod. Attach three nuts, and one by one, grind the threaded rod and nut down to a smaller thickness. That will give me one thin nut in front of the prop and two at the back of the prop. I have eight props, I gotta get it right at least once. I liked the gull winged servo rod, but...I have four sizes of rigging pliers which would give me exact spacing, if not I have lots of needle nose. I liked the home made thrust washers, I'll go that way if I must, but I'd rather have bronze commercial ones. I have cut the dfore deck off the main deck. As well, I've cut the fore deck bulhead off. I'm putting the below deck shims on now. Then I will start the pin rails. When both of these are done, I shoot the bottom of each resin applied with a large gauge hypo (#15).

A little bit of personal data; I am on SSD, per Renal Dialysis, the agent orange got me after all. I was given 1-6 years, I've used up 3 yrs. Of course, you never really know, one of my friends at the clinic was given 3 years and he's on year 9. I have spent 14 years off and on in VA Hospitals, per 6 PHs. The biggest issue I have is I am discalulate, I've had 8 semesters of accounting, and I can't balance a check book. I can look at a formula all day, and still not understand it. I got blown up a lot. There was a time in the days of yore when I could calulate the ballistics for a 1200 yard shot, down hill (.50 cal Barrett). It has been said I over build, perhaps true...plan for the worst - hope for thr best.

So bear with me. I have a lot to relearn, but... it is fun. Thank you all who have replied to my thread.

Craig
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 03:42 AM
Sometimes I am the weapon
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South Korea, Gyeonggi-do, Ansan-si
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I'll bear with you as long as you keep us updated and maintain all the info in a concise and compact location (this thread perhaps?).
Actually that seems to be a problem with a lot of contributors here (keeping up with their own build log). They create excitement with their build, carry on for several months and then disappear into oblivion never to return. No one gets closure. If it's a long time between updates and you cannot seemingly find your build log, just search for it and it will be found.

Looking forward to seeing what you come up with (that is, your take on the R/C conversion of the Lindberg trawler). I'd love to see your results and maybe a pic or two. I'll be watching...

P.S. Thank you for your service.
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 10:23 AM
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I've been loitering around this build for a while and am confused. What is a 'real thrust washer'? What more do you need for a small plastic kit conversion than a simple flat washer or thin slice of a brass tube? My original Lindy CG Cutter conversion used the smallest K&S brass tube and the solid brass rod that fit inside as running hardware. That boat ran often for well over 10 years. In the pics you can see the home made tillers and rudders. Made from thin brass sheet and soldered in place. The push/pull rod conecting the servo to the tiller is also brass tube and rod. Line up and solder in place.
With these tiny models, keep it simple, light and have fun.

Dave
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Old Mar 01, 2013, 08:28 PM
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Higher end ESCs like the Mtroniks have certain features that might preclude the use of an inline fuse. Mtroniks boasts these safety features: "motor short protection, motor stall protection, adjustable reverse including reverse disable, built in failsafe...". I don't see many using fuses on these small RC conversions because maybe it is redundant. Thoughts?

The silicone fuel line coupler, while "primitive/simplistic" also boasts its own built in failsafe for the propeller: if the prop strikes an immobile underwater object, the tubing coupler may slip enough to prevent damage to the prop. Certainly more of a factor with larger heavier props but still feasible in this scale.

I used a solid block of balsa wood for the trawler motor mount. I've often wanted a more rigid mount which has holes in it to match the mounting holes on the motor itself. Machine screws of the proper size, though, are difficult to procure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pblix View Post
They have a few inline fuse holders - not sure if it is what you had in mind.
...
I use some silicone fuel line (smallest ID I could find) as a coupling. Works like a champ.
...
I built a custom motor mount from styrene with a rubber band holding it down.
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