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Old Oct 24, 2011, 05:15 PM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
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Here is my buddies Bucker Jungmeister from pico Tiger Moth airframe!

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Old Oct 24, 2011, 05:25 PM
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United States, VA, Chesterfield
Joined Mar 2001
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Pitts

I remember your buddies Bucker--good kit bash!. Some of the GWS kits are now coming out in epo foam which should help them survive longer. They may be a bit heavier, but not significantly so. I lost 2 Picos and a Cub to OOS flyways--they were up so high I lost them! One was my China Fleet Club Moth--really sad to have lost that one! I still have another kit and lots of spare parts for repairs to the remaining fleet.
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Old Oct 24, 2011, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfewinde View Post
Hope to get that done and all of the black plastic pieces glued in tonight. Probably going to use a HiMax 2015 - 4200 geared motor I already have. Not sure about that yet, but I want to keep this pretty light weight

Wolfe
It doesn't take much to make the small 'Mosa go. This $7.50 inrunner fro HobbyCity is on its second Formosa and has been going strong for about 2 1/2 years so far. Typically powered with 3S/1300 lipo. 8x6 prop (as I recall.)
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 08:12 AM
did a reversed Immelman..once.
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I intend to build another Formoas this winter.along with the new EPO Zero kit I have.Most Zeros are finished in some shade of green (whick is cool)..but I think I'm gonna go with another color....maybe something like this.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 08:16 AM
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I was looking around and found that Zeros could be had for as low as $35. But unfortunately I can't seem to find any near that price here in Canada. I l was planning on doing green with the orange underbelly.
Rob
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 10:02 AM
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I cut my r/c flying teeth on GWS kit and was one of their staunchest fans. I've had at least one and sometimes several of each of their kits. They ran into trouble at about the time that they opened their China factory, which was greatly delayed and which coincided with the launch of a bunch of new aircraft of which several were EDF. Those were designed around GWS EDF units and esc and there were reliability issues with those. These "second generation" aircraft which would include P-40, P-38, Me262, T6, F-15, A-4, FW190 and J-10 were a significant step forward in the quality of design and engineering of the airframes. Unfortunately the brushless motors and esc that were launched at the same time were noticeable for being much more expensive than other makers stuff becoming available at the same time. They may have been more efficient but they were not noticeably more reliable whereas they were noticeably more expensive.

I was one of several people who pleaded and pleaded for updated versions of the Picomoth and the Beaver. The Picomoth remains to this day - in my mind - one of the most characterful, easy to build and fun to fly super slow fly models there is, full stop, end of conversation. It would have cost cents to update it with a few improvements that most of us had done anyway - 9g brushless motor, better interplane struts, better wheels, better cowl etc but it never happened.

Likewise there was/is a Mk II Beaver which would have sold like hot cakes but which never reached production.

GWS had, and still have, a fundamental problem in that they don't recognise the value of marketing. I think when they were amongst the market leaders they probably made the mistake of keeping their prices too low, at the expense of their profit. Being able to beat your competitors on price is good but only if your margins are able to support the others things you need to do, like marketing, like giving the dealers a decent margin and being able to afford continuous improvements to your existing range as well as developing new products.

GWS are now focused on servos - which are expensive but don't, to my mind have any USP's or meet any market needs that aren't met by competitors who are either cheaper or have a better established quality brand. I doubt they will get back into planes other than to tick over producing the existing range for as long as it sells which, in the absence of effective marketing and dealer stocking, will be increasingly rarely.

The world has moved on without them. I was somewhat stuck for choice seven or eight years ago. Now, not only do I have more choice than I can shake a stick at but there is some astonishing value coming out of the Far East.

Someone mentions the GWS TM400. It was a great plane, I've had several and still have one but why would I buy a GWS TM400 kit for which I would additionally have to buy and fit a brushless motor, esc and servos when for less money I could buy the HobbyKing EPO Tiger Moth which comes with motor, esc and servos installed and which is a much finer model with many details which are absent on the GWS TM400?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1489219

GWS are promoting the "upgrading" of their models from EPS foam to EPO foam like it was some miracle transformation. EPO is stronger than EPS, sure, but it is also significantly heavier and in my experience is very much fussier than EPS was about what paint will stick to it.

If you buy a Zero, Rob, and haven't owned one before bear in mind that the wing incidence is incorrect. This is because the plane was originally designed for a 30 or 40W brushed motor. Any more power than this (and these days most people would go for at least 80-100W) and the plane will want to do continuous loops. You need to drop the wings leading edge by about 1/8" and raise the trailing edge by 1/16"

I should say I've just checked in my hangar and find my GWS inventory of flying models runs to Zero, Spit, Me109, Corsair, BN2, C130, C47, TM400, T6, A-10, Picomoth(2), P40, FW190, F-15, Me262 and Formosa 1, with "still in box" kits for two more C130's - one prop, one EDF - Spitfire, Zero, P51, Me109, Formosa and Lord knows what else. I think I can count myself a GWS convert/customer?

I'd really miss them terribly if I didn't have plenty of alternative choice. As it is I still miss them because had the person who takes all the decisions in the business, and it is only one person, listened to his customers as carefully as one of his staff (who is no longer with them) used to then they might still be in the public eye and I might have an even better Picomoth and a Beaver MkII or two!
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 10:06 AM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
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I will be monitoring GWS USA Distributors / Outlets for the new GWS Models with improved Foam as I really like GWS primary because I learned to fly on GWS models.

Hope to see some of those "new" models that they had planned on releasing several years ago and did not due to various reasons after their move to main land China.

If not, then, I would be happy just trying out the new "Foam" material on the already existing models they have in circulation.

Carlos
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 10:16 AM
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Carlos,

EPO - heavier but stronger, maybe a little smoother and maybe capable of taking a little more detail but a bit picky about paint.

The detail bit is irrelevant to GWS as they haven't (so far as I know) produced new moulds. My comment about paint adhesion is from my own experience and it dates to kits that were amongst the first produced in EPO by GWS. The latest EPO may be better in this respect, although my experience of EPO or its equivalent from other manufacturers suggests it isn't - paint adhesion is a bigger issue than it was with EPS. Multiplex actually produce a special primer for their "Elapor" which I believe is the Mulktiplex version of EPO.

But basically you're going to have to crash to find out the difference!!
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 10:48 AM
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Roger,
Your thoughts on GWS echo mine exactly. I remember when GWSCEO was bringing a lot of attention to his decision to moving his production to China. I didn't like the idea at the time, and now I don't really see how it has improved things for the company. I don't know any of the details of course. I don't like it when any company moves their production to China, much less when a Taiwanese company moves to China.

Anyway, about the wing incidence on the Zero. That was the reason I bought my Corsair (in Taiwan I might add) oh so many years ago. I wanted a stable easy flying plane as my first aileron model, and I didn't want to have to do any modifications. I was hoping that with the new foam some changes might have been made. I guess not. If could get one cheap enough, I'd still love to have one. But as you said so many choices, so much value...
Cheers,
Rob
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfewinde View Post
The GWS planes with ailerons generally use a unique torque rod system that uses a single server to operate the ailerons. One end of the torque rod is inserted into the aileron after you drill a very small hole.

Instead of glueing the wire straight into the aileron, cut off a short piece of the push rod tubing and glue that into the aileron. It is less likely to "tear out" over time. Then you can just insert the torque rod into the tubing when you attach the aileron. Don't glue it. Just let it slide free inside the tube.

Wolfe
Good advice. I did the same but with brass tubing.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 04:42 PM
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It's very good advice. Also, with the first generation GWS stuff bear in mind that they were designed to accommodate AA NimH or Nicad cells. These have a diameter of about 17mm so the battery compartments are normally 17-18 mm deep. Although 2 cell lipos can be less than this thickness it's rare to find a 3s lipo of this size so you will need to hog out the battery compartment and this is much easier done before you join the fuselage halves. I use woodworkers white glue for the reasons already stated in an earlier post.

Also bear in mind that there is now a GWS motor mount gearbox EMM20T which is a direct swap for the brushed motor gearbox/stickmount but which will take a 20mm inrunner and support it properly. Just make sure your chosen inrunner has the same shaft diameter as the 350 GWS brushed motor and you can simpy pull and refit the pinion to convert to a brushless powerpack. And the GWEMM002 will allow you to put an outrunner on the existing motor stick.

I also developed the practice of using a little patch of fibreglass cloth and epoxy over the wing mountings to increase their resistance to being pulled loose in abrupt landing.

And swap out any magnets as supplied by GWS for rare earth ones which will be much stronger and more effective.
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 05:30 PM
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Good advice

Anyone know where I can get a set of replacement struts for a Pico Moth - can't find them in stock anywhere?

Wolfe
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Old Oct 25, 2011, 05:36 PM
Right Rudder
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USA, FL, Orlando
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Originally Posted by Roger Lombard View Post
It's very good advice. Also, with the first generation GWS stuff bear in mind that they were designed to accommodate AA NimH or Nicad cells. These have a diameter of about 17mm so the battery compartments are normally 17-18 mm deep. Although 2 cell lipos can be less than this thickness it's rare to find a 3s lipo of this size so you will need to hog out the battery compartment and this is much easier done before you join the fuselage halves. I use woodworkers white glue for the reasons already stated in an earlier post.

Also bear in mind that there is now a GWS motor mount gearbox EMM20T which is a direct swap for the brushed motor gearbox/stickmount but which will take a 20mm inrunner and support it properly. Just make sure your chosen inrunner has the same shaft diameter as the 350 GWS brushed motor and you can simpy pull and refit the pinion to convert to a brushless powerpack. And the GWEMM002 will allow you to put an outrunner on the existing motor stick.

I also developed the practice of using a little patch of fibreglass cloth and epoxy over the wing mountings to increase their resistance to being pulled loose in abrupt landing.

And swap out any magnets as supplied by GWS for rare earth ones which will be much stronger and more effective.

Well, that is exactly why I enjoyed the GWS Kits, if I can say and refer to them in this manner. I did exactly that before joining the two halves of the FUSE (hog out the battery compartment) on my GWS Formosa and I did maiden it with the EPS-350C and it flew okay but, that was just too hot of a motor and not enough reduction gearing, if I recall correctly.

I quickly installed my first high performance Brushless inrunner on it known as the Razor 400 brushless inrunner and used the Himax Gearbox that came with almost the right size Square mounting to accept the GWS stick mount. However, I did not use the Himax reduction "Spur" gear as back then, they were over $5.00 each and since I am cheap, I used the GWS spur gears as they were a fraction of the cost.

Here is my Himax gearbox holder with GWS Reduction shaft and GWS Spur Gear:










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Old Oct 26, 2011, 02:04 AM
Confused? Who, me?
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Originally Posted by wolfewinde View Post
Good advice

Anyone know where I can get a set of replacement struts for a Pico Moth - can't find them in stock anywhere?

Wolfe
GW/AP060 here http://www.caliberhobby.com/tmparts.html

www.allerc.com used to do a ply set but no longer seem to list them.

http://www.e-flightline.com/ do lasercut ply sets for the TM400m and PT-17 but not (yet?) for the PicoMoth.
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Old Oct 26, 2011, 08:42 AM
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This may seem backwards but I started off with Parkzone and FMS planes and I am now moving into the GWS planes. In fact an in-progress GWS P-38 is sitting on my kitchen table as I type this. I bought a whole bunch of GWS kits (A-10, ME-262, 2 ME-109's, P-40, FW-190, and the P-38) when I first started to get into R/C airplanes, but shelved them and went with a Parkzone Corsair and then the Wildcat as it was quicker and easier to get into the air. I then bought the FMS P-51, P-47, and Stuka, but now after a few years, I am interested in building one of these GWS kits to expand my knowledge and skill base by starting from scratch (well as much as scratch as you can be with a foam airplane).
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