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Old Jul 26, 2012, 06:41 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
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Still moving forward, got the control linkage set up, servos wired, more sanding and the first powered test done so far today. And with that, the first video of the wing, floor flying!

Some more sanding, and a little more fiddling around and she will be ready to cover. Hoping for tomorrow on that. As Kent suggested, I'll take plenty of pics of the covering and document it enough to make a small HowTo out of it. I'll post it here and probably boil it down into a pdf to make it handy if all turns out OK.

Oh, and a couple more pics too.

Mark

Radio not programmed for elevons but we have movement with good throws.
Control Surfaces Thermal Bleed (0 min 32 sec)
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 06:51 PM
Herk
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Virginia USA
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Hey Mark,

When you do your programming, you will definitely want to couple rudder with the aileron function on your elevons.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 07:05 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerkS View Post
Hey Mark,

When you do your programming, you will definitely want to couple rudder with the aileron function on your elevons.
Thanks for the heads up Herk, and as soon as i put a rudder on it, I'll be sure to do that. No rudder at this time, just a fin. I very well could end up being sorry about that, and adding a rudder in will be a simple task. Just slice, hing, seervo and pushrod / pull-pull and done. I've flown planks before with just a fin and they did OK. (though that was slope flying) Do you REALLY think it will NEED a rudder before it's first go?

Mark
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 07:48 PM
Herk
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Virginia USA
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Originally Posted by Quick61 View Post
Thanks for the heads up Herk, and as soon as i put a rudder on it, I'll be sure to do that. No rudder at this time, just a fin. I very well could end up being sorry about that, and adding a rudder in will be a simple task. Just slice, hing, seervo and pushrod / pull-pull and done. I've flown planks before with just a fin and they did OK. (though that was slope flying) Do you REALLY think it will NEED a rudder before it's first go?

Mark
No Mark - it'll fly but will handle much better with coupled rudder. Also, on winch and hi-start a rudder is better for keeping it straight. Adverse yaw is always there, and it's worse at high AOA. After flying mine yesterday I doubled the rudder coupling gain. I had it moving about ten degrees with full aileron. Now it's about 20 degrees - handled much better. CG was a bit too far aft so that complicated it. Now have moved CG forward just a bit.
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Old Jul 26, 2012, 07:57 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
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OK, thanks for the input. Now you really have me thinking... I'll head back down to the hanger in a bit and have a sneaky-peekie-looky-see about setting up a rudder on this fuse or wait till I do another one with moving weight / shifting CG. Thanks for this input, it is most helpful!

Mark
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 11:07 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
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Well, first things first. After looking at the fuse, it will take major surgery to put in a rudder... next pod. So it will have to go like it is for now, and to that end. -

Covered the fuse with the Skyloft and was less than impressed. Then about half way through covering the first wing my "less than impressed" feelings turned into a slurry of 4 letter words that I dare not even make hint of here.

So off with the stuff, broke out the Doculam and got to it. Sense you all know all the trucks to applying Doculam, I won't go into any of that here. I will mention though that I did apply the bottom on both wings first, masked off the top and shot some color inside the bays, then applied the top covering. I think this ALMOST saved a complete covering disaster.

On the bright side, I did get it balanced out and the radio programed. Here in a bit I'm going to head down the road to the tall grass and give it a few hand tosses and see where I stand. After this FUBAR covering job, I'll be tickled right out of my BVD's if it even flies half way straight. We'll see...

Anyway, a few more pics for now.

Mark
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 02:16 PM
I don't like your altitude
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Nice job Mark,I like the colour,suits the ships name
What were theProblems with theSkyloft?
Stuart
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Old Jul 29, 2012, 04:29 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
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Originally Posted by Stupot46 View Post
Nice job Mark,I like the colour,suits the ships name
What were theProblems with theSkyloft?
Stuart
To make a long sad story short, it just became unmanageable on such a large wing. Like most material like it, one starts in the middle and works towards the edges. by the time I was headed to the outside, the middle was drying out and shrinking, causing uncorrectable wrinkles in between. I would of had to of gotten the wing soaking wet to of had any hope, and that would not of ended well.

I toke the bird out for a few test tosses in the tall grass and found that the tail fin had gotten to wet and warped, so I had the thing wanting to turn left the entire time. Not too bad, but enough. I did however get it balanced out, or at least close, so it's not taking a nose or tail dive. Brought it back home and it looks like I now have the warp out. If I had it to do over again, and I just might. I will wax paper bag the fin/rudder with 3/4oz glass and GG. That always makes for a nice flat, strong and relatively light part.

Think next up will be a little slope action with it to get it sorted out before I try to send it up the line, unless I get tired of waiting for the wind to come in at the right direction. I have been known to give things that "go or blow" kind of attitude.

Mark

Oh, and one wing came out heaver than the other so that could not of helped things with the turning either, og I'm thinking some paint, stripes and/or logo on the light wing. I do have some day glow green that would really stand out. Now to do up some masking templates.
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 09:11 AM
less is more
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United States, CA, Marina
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Originally Posted by Quick61 View Post
I have been known to give things that "go or blow" kind of attitude.
.
I'm the same way.....I think that it is the slope flying that does it to you. It seems that we don't have many slope flyers in this forum. I'd be interested in some shots of your slope or better yet a video of the Bleed in action. It looks like a good slope ship.

Kent
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Old Jul 30, 2012, 11:02 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
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It's not much of a slope, but the wind, when blowing the right way gets funneled into it and can produce some good upwards moving air. Mild days, I can work my little 3/4m Bug SAL on it and the last time I flew anything larger was my Thermic72 right as a storm was rolling in. I'd say gusting to 30 or so. maybe you can get a look at the little slope in the video bellow. It looks like I'm going to be taking that "go or blow" position soon as the wind does not seem to be wanting to play with me. Oh, and be warned, the plane in the video has a (gasp) tail on it.

Mark

At about 3:29 it catches a gust of wind and it's upside down and behind me before I can catch it and recover. It was a bit to windy for flying something that light, but I did have fun, and it was the first real flights I had on the plane. Taken with little key chain cam taped to hat so not the best aim.

Slopen Thermic (5 min 51 sec)
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 06:31 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
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Got out today and staked down my wimpy home made high start, and with that "Go or Blow" attitude, I hooked the ship up and gave it a few half power or so launches in the little field with the tall grass. It didn't help matters that once I got the high start set up and the line tight for the first launch, the wind had shifted almost 180*. Also, despite my best efforts to get it straightened out, by the time i was out to the field and ready to give it a go, the tail fin had started to warp again from being in the sun. As you can see from the first launch, it's left turn city but got it trimmed out enough to tell that this wing will actually fly. Just got to keep from being so heavy thumbed on the sticks and I think it will be alright. The last launch in the video ended rather quick, do to some brain dead moron forgetting to install the screw in the servo horn!! Just wait till I get my hands on him, like the next time I'm in front of a mirror. Karma must of been with me today as the only thing that broke was the warped tail fin! Clean break, just a little sanding, glue on a new fin and were good to go. Anyway, more later, once I get the new fin made and installed. So without further ado, here's the video for your amusement.

Mark

And of course, once again, the little key chain cam was not aimed quite right. I really need to do something about that.

ThermalBleed Firstest 1 (2 min 30 sec)
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Last edited by Quick61; Aug 01, 2012 at 07:05 PM.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 07:14 PM
Herk
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Balsa warps - it's a fact of life.

If you put cross pieces of balsa at the ends of the fin, it will probably help restrain the warping.

It's hard to tell, but the model looks as if it may be nose heavy. What is the chord and how far is the balance point aft of the leading edge?
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 07:19 PM
less is more
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United States, CA, Marina
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Hey this thing looks like a real floater ! Not bad for 2m. It must be light.

Do you think that it might be a little pitch unstable or were you just freaked out by all of the obstacles in this tiny flying site. Looks like you win prize for the most challenging flying site. Ever notice that the best pilots fly at acres of mowed lawn.
Maybe the elevator throws are too big.

One of the later flights looked really good. I predict good things for this plane at the bigger flying site and a bigger launch.

The video is good. Keep it up.

Kent
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 07:52 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
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Thanks for the kind words Kent. The weight is about 23 - 24oz balanced. I don't know for sure as the scales I have were bought for weighing gold, not planes, so it only goes to 20oz.

The apparent instability in pitch was about 90% me and maybe maybe 10-15% CG. I'm thinking a little more nose weight and a touch more reflex in the elevons will have it right as rain. I know it's real close as there were no sings of proposing (hyperstall) going on. Just my led thumbs overreacting. The dual rates were set at 50% and 75%, and I was flying with the 50%. I am going to reset that for 40%, maybe 35% low and 55 - 60% high.

Yea, you are correct, it is a very small field and gets even smaller with 2m of wing trying to fly around above it. But it's the place that has the tall grass and that makes it real ince to test new planes out in. You noticed the one where it's heading to the trees on the left... had to dump it and the tall grass saved it as well as the rough landings, like the one where I stalled it about 15' off the ground and it noses in.

Yes, that one flight was great and my feelings about the wing went right up there with it. I'm going to start on the new tail in a bit. Think I might even try a CF disser on it, that might help it from ever wanting to go south again. Still, can't wait to get it back out there and put her up again.

Mark
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:02 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
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Hey Herk, your thinking I have too much nose weight? i was thinking just the opposite. Maybe I should deffer to you. the chord is 9" and the Cg is 1 3/4" back from the LE. Thanks for the construction pointer, will do.

Mark
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