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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:32 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Rebuild old starter or buy new???

I have an old original Sullivan Hi-Torque starter I purchased way back in about 1976 or so. It still runs but the plastic is in pretty tough shape and the switch is becoming intermittent along with a couple of minor issues

I can buy the replacements parts to the tune of about $35. I would also like to add a self contained battery pack, I have a HF 18 volt on hand. I'm undecided if I should fix what I have of or buy something new.

What would be your opinion of a reliable not out of the ball park price starter.

Ken
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 04:42 PM
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United States, TX, Leander
Joined Sep 2003
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I dont know whats out of the ball park but I love my sullivan dynatron. You can get them used at swapmeets for around $60 to $80. But I see no problem with repairing. Look at the condition of the commutators. If they are worn down, at some point, you'll need a new armature. If not, clean them up and you're good to go.
Edwin
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:18 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by edwin1 View Post
Look at the condition of the commutators. If they are worn down, at some point, you'll need a new armature. If not, clean them up and you're good to go.
Edwin

I'm guessing if you looked at the "hours of use" on the starter it would be very low. I did have it apart a year or so ago and the internals look like new. It's the outsides that are in tough shape. I guess if I were treated, like I've treated that starter, I'd look a bit tough also
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:34 PM
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United States, TX, Leander
Joined Sep 2003
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Then fix the cosmetics and you should be good. Sullivans last a long time anyway. I've fixed a few starters for other people that had bad switches on them. The problem was the contact mounts had melted and moved. A little filing and it was fixed. This is due to holding the starter "ON" for too long. Short bursts will make the starter last a lot longer.
Edwin
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 05:45 PM
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I usually rebuild once then buy a new one when it needs it again. Not a lot goes wrong with them inside, usually just new brushes and they are good to go again. What they look like on the outside I don't care, as long as they make the engine start I'm happy with it. Adding the HF 18 volt really made mine into a power house!! For $15.00 I got the battery and quick charger. They went up in price but during a sale I got a new drill with a battery and charger for $20.00.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 06:13 PM
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Guess I need to look into that HF battery pack. Right now I'm tethered to a garden tractor battery. But I use it to start up to 40cc with the dynatron.
Edwin
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 07:07 PM
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United States, DE, Seaford
Joined Sep 2008
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What's outta the ball park?? $100?? or so??
I just replaced my 40 year old Sullivan with an Align Super Starter and love it. No more wires or battery box ,self contained lipo driven with gear reduction with case is a tick over $100 US. They come in heli and plane version and in all black or black and yellow if this makes any never mind. I've yet to find an engine up to 1.80 that it won't start. Look around for best price as you can save quite a bit by letting your fingers do the shopping.

Despite my enthusiasm for this, I have no connection with Align or any other vendor.
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by edwin1 View Post
Guess I need to look into that HF battery pack. Right now I'm tethered to a garden tractor battery. But I use it to start up to 40cc with the dynatron.
Edwin
My old starter isn't a high torque and is only supposed to start up to a 90 glow. Even before the HF 18 volt pack it started all my YS 120s and 140. Biggest engine I have started with it now was the DLE 30. It won't roll over my Brison 2.4 though, not even close but with a fresh charge the DLE 30 is no trouble. Should really zing over an engine with the 18 and Dynatron!!
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Old Oct 10, 2012, 09:55 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadchucker View Post
What's outta the ball park?? $100?? or so??
I just replaced my 40 year old Sullivan with an Align Super Starter and love it. No more wires or battery box ,self contained lipo driven with gear reduction with case is a tick over $100 US. They come in heli and plane version and in all black or black and yellow if this makes any never mind. I've yet to find an engine up to 1.80 that it won't start. Look around for best price as you can save quite a bit by letting your fingers do the shopping.

Despite my enthusiasm for this, I have no connection with Align or any other vendor.
I looked at that starter. It looks good except I would have to go out and buy a lipo to fit. I'm not a big fan of lipo's especially when they have to stay charged for a while. I wonder if a LiFe battery would work???

Ken
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 04:37 PM
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USA, MA, Weymouth
Joined Mar 2004
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I've STILL got my old S600 starter...but I DO have to get back to WORK !!

Dear Kenh3497:

The PIPE Here...I've got an S600 Sullivan starter of my own...



...that's about the SAME vintage (1976) as your Sullivan unit is, and when I CAN get back to work, it IS going to get a replacement front plastic start guard fitted to it that I obtained direct from Sullivan, before my 99 weeks of unemployment checks ended on Labor Day Week of 2010 !!

After finishing up my two-year business degree on June 1st of this year, now I'm taking income tax preparation classes with one of the major tax preparation "chains" in the USA that's got a few storefronts in my area, and so far THAT possibility is my best chance to get back to SOME sort of work after 2013 gets going.

As far as going for LiFePO4 power for it, be well advised that the "local-to-New England-based RCers" A123 Systems (HQ offices in Waltham, MA!!!) makes the lithium iron phosphate cells used by Dave Thacker's RadicalRC for their 4S1P hookup LiFe chemistry starter battery. All you'd need is a LiFe-handling charger like a Hitec X4 unit (I'm planning on getting their four-output, 80 watt per circuit unit when I get back to work), be sure to have a five conductor balancing hookup to the charger to get all four cells properly "balance"-charged, and you'd be "off and running" on A123 power for your vintage Sullivan starter. The price is US $76 for one of those, but if you looked at it as an "investment" in a battery pack that can really last a VERY long time without replacement if treated and charged properly (like with a Hitec X4 or similar LiFe-capable charger) the price does get to be a bit less of a concern.

For a flitebox, A123 DOES make their own twelve volt (actually, 13.2 volt output) LiFe-chemistry "ALM 12V7" cell for such uses, but its price of $136.00 through their outlet for them IS a bit steep for most of us. Again, it IS stated that the 12V7 unit will outlast lead-acid gel cells by a considerable margin, so perhaps that's another purchase I could make after getting back to work.

Also, with one of the A123-based 4S1P packs providing a bit of an extra "kick" with its 13.2 volt open circuit voltage, you MIGHT find that your Sullivan unit can now spin up some more "stubborn-to-start" glow-fueled mills when needed.

So, if you've got LiFe-cell charging capability already, I'd bet that RadicalRC might have what you're looking for concerning a 4S1P-hookup LiFe battery pack for your starter.

Best of luck, and hope that this helps a little!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE....!!
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 10:20 PM
The Prez....... again
kenh3497's Avatar
United States, IA, Rockwell
Joined Jul 2011
4,145 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The PIPE View Post
Dear Kenh3497:

The PIPE Here...I've got an S600 Sullivan starter of my own...



...that's about the SAME vintage (1976) as your Sullivan unit is, and when I CAN get back to work, it IS going to get a replacement front plastic start guard fitted to it that I obtained direct from Sullivan, before my 99 weeks of unemployment checks ended on Labor Day Week of 2010 !!

After finishing up my two-year business degree on June 1st of this year, now I'm taking income tax preparation classes with one of the major tax preparation "chains" in the USA that's got a few storefronts in my area, and so far THAT possibility is my best chance to get back to SOME sort of work after 2013 gets going.

As far as going for LiFePO4 power for it, be well advised that the "local-to-New England-based RCers" A123 Systems (HQ offices in Waltham, MA!!!) makes the lithium iron phosphate cells used by Dave Thacker's RadicalRC for their 4S1P hookup LiFe chemistry starter battery. All you'd need is a LiFe-handling charger like a Hitec X4 unit (I'm planning on getting their four-output, 80 watt per circuit unit when I get back to work), be sure to have a five conductor balancing hookup to the charger to get all four cells properly "balance"-charged, and you'd be "off and running" on A123 power for your vintage Sullivan starter. The price is US $76 for one of those, but if you looked at it as an "investment" in a battery pack that can really last a VERY long time without replacement if treated and charged properly (like with a Hitec X4 or similar LiFe-capable charger) the price does get to be a bit less of a concern.

For a flitebox, A123 DOES make their own twelve volt (actually, 13.2 volt output) LiFe-chemistry "ALM 12V7" cell for such uses, but its price of $136.00 through their outlet for them IS a bit steep for most of us. Again, it IS stated that the 12V7 unit will outlast lead-acid gel cells by a considerable margin, so perhaps that's another purchase I could make after getting back to work.

Also, with one of the A123-based 4S1P packs providing a bit of an extra "kick" with its 13.2 volt open circuit voltage, you MIGHT find that your Sullivan unit can now spin up some more "stubborn-to-start" glow-fueled mills when needed.

So, if you've got LiFe-cell charging capability already, I'd bet that RadicalRC might have what you're looking for concerning a 4S1P-hookup LiFe battery pack for your starter.

Best of luck, and hope that this helps a little!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE....!!

Na, it's just an 18 volt Nicad drill battery from Harbor Freight that I have and will use.

LOL... Pipe, I have to laugh. Every time you reply to somebody you always "write a book". LOL. I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing because of you. It is your way!! You always provide every detail, which is good. I would like to meet you some time. Maybe it will happen.

Ken
PS I love your avatar.
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 08:57 AM
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Mtn Home, Idaho
Joined Feb 2010
443 Posts
Running my dynatron on 4cell lipo.A boat load of starts with no charging. Battery is 2200mah
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 11:59 AM
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United States, FL, Destin
Joined Oct 2004
34 Posts
i personally wouldn't waste my time rebuilding one since you can put something together like this for about $35.....found this starter NIB sittin for years at a swap meet for $20 and the Lipo was maybe $10-15. Any standard 12v starter with a 4cell lipo should do. I've started up to 180 four strokes with this one
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 07:57 PM
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Old Oct 19, 2012, 09:47 PM
Zor
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Ontario,Canada
Joined Feb 2007
9,742 Posts
My deductions

Hello folks,

I had the larger Hobbico electric stater brand new (about $75.00 here).

It started my new Saito 125a a few times while doing the (so called) break in. (that does not break the engine )

As the Saito was gaining compression the starter had a hard time even giving it 1 1/2 revolution of the crankshaft before compression.

The starter was fed from a good 12 volt battery that would easlily crank my Ford van engine (450 cu. in. V8 engine).

Eventually the starter would not manage to make the Saito pass the compression and of course not start.

I decided to measure the current in the starter and I measured near 60 amps (sixty).

My deduction is that these starters are not made to sustain high current like that for any length of time. I opened the switch and it was badly burned.

I managed to get half of my money back and bougth a Sullivan DynaTron (The World's Most Powerful Starter . . . as written on its box).

These starters as being just a typical electric motor should last indefinitely in our usage. We must not however hold them on energized if they do not manage to get the engine turning reasonably fast.

There is good chances that the only repair needed is the switch not rated to carry 40 or 60 amps or more.

Open it up and have a look.

Zor
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